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	<title>Comments on: HadSST: Highest values since 1998</title>
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	<link>http://rankexploits.com/musings/2009/hadsst-highest-values-since-1998/</link>
	<description>Where Climate Talk Gets Hot!</description>
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		<title>By: DAILY SUN ACTIVITIES &#8211; 19 July 2009 &#171; Perceptions from Metis Ojibway Achak</title>
		<link>http://rankexploits.com/musings/2009/hadsst-highest-values-since-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-16509</link>
		<dc:creator>DAILY SUN ACTIVITIES &#8211; 19 July 2009 &#171; Perceptions from Metis Ojibway Achak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 12:14:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rankexploits.com/musings/?p=5865#comment-16509</guid>
		<description>[...] the website The Blackboard, there is a plot of the latest sea surface temperature anomalies from the Hadley Center. It has [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the website The Blackboard, there is a plot of the latest sea surface temperature anomalies from the Hadley Center. It has [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Boris</title>
		<link>http://rankexploits.com/musings/2009/hadsst-highest-values-since-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-16242</link>
		<dc:creator>Boris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:47:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rankexploits.com/musings/?p=5865#comment-16242</guid>
		<description>&quot;Maybe not, but at least now if things do stay cooler, they can say it doesn’t change things, just a pause, and point out how they’ve already posted about it.&quot;

lol, I&#039;ll give you that. But if that&#039;s true then we can all jump on them for not getting internal variability right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Maybe not, but at least now if things do stay cooler, they can say it doesn’t change things, just a pause, and point out how they’ve already posted about it.&#8221;</p>
<p>lol, I&#8217;ll give you that. But if that&#8217;s true then we can all jump on them for not getting internal variability right.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Id</title>
		<link>http://rankexploits.com/musings/2009/hadsst-highest-values-since-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-16231</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Id</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:49:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rankexploits.com/musings/?p=5865#comment-16231</guid>
		<description>Mike N,

I just read your comment about the 75% weighting of trend in the peninsula.  It did have an error but by the same method when corrected I get about 50% weighting.  Nic made a nice post by adjusting trend but I don&#039;t think that gives us a true weighting either because the regression can (and of course does) compensate using other station information.  

When I ran the B matrix version of the calculation I found about a 50% weighting of the infilling of all stations based on the peninsula information.  This doesn&#039;t give us the reconstruction final weight because the satellite PC&#039;s need to be separated out.  I think what I took away from it all was that the peninsula weight was overstated in all reconstructions so far but not as badly as my first calculations showed.

Nic also made a good point that with regard to trend, most of the negative weighted stations subtract trend from the total whereas my initial calculations  assumed the stations were positive contributors.  A negative station with similar information to other stations would remove trend from the reconstruction.  

Any way I think about it, the true weighting is difficult to express since the weighting changes as more or less data is available in the individual rows (months) of the matrix.  

If you are wondering how over weighted the peninsula is, you can see it visually in the difference between area weighted and EM plots at this post.

http://noconsensus.wordpress.com/2009/07/07/area-weighted-tpca-check/#more-4448

One thing I hope to try this week is to re-weight the stations in Ryan&#039;s EM algorithm according to area to insure that high concentrations of surface measurements (as in the peninsula) don&#039;t over weight information in the reconstruction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike N,</p>
<p>I just read your comment about the 75% weighting of trend in the peninsula.  It did have an error but by the same method when corrected I get about 50% weighting.  Nic made a nice post by adjusting trend but I don&#8217;t think that gives us a true weighting either because the regression can (and of course does) compensate using other station information.  </p>
<p>When I ran the B matrix version of the calculation I found about a 50% weighting of the infilling of all stations based on the peninsula information.  This doesn&#8217;t give us the reconstruction final weight because the satellite PC&#8217;s need to be separated out.  I think what I took away from it all was that the peninsula weight was overstated in all reconstructions so far but not as badly as my first calculations showed.</p>
<p>Nic also made a good point that with regard to trend, most of the negative weighted stations subtract trend from the total whereas my initial calculations  assumed the stations were positive contributors.  A negative station with similar information to other stations would remove trend from the reconstruction.  </p>
<p>Any way I think about it, the true weighting is difficult to express since the weighting changes as more or less data is available in the individual rows (months) of the matrix.  </p>
<p>If you are wondering how over weighted the peninsula is, you can see it visually in the difference between area weighted and EM plots at this post.</p>
<p><a href="http://noconsensus.wordpress.com/2009/07/07/area-weighted-tpca-check/#more-4448" >http://noconsensus.wordpress.c.....#more-4448</a></p>
<p>One thing I hope to try this week is to re-weight the stations in Ryan&#8217;s EM algorithm according to area to insure that high concentrations of surface measurements (as in the peninsula) don&#8217;t over weight information in the reconstruction.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeN</title>
		<link>http://rankexploits.com/musings/2009/hadsst-highest-values-since-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-16220</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 05:22:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rankexploits.com/musings/?p=5865#comment-16220</guid>
		<description>&gt;I doubt RC agrees with Swanson

Maybe not, but at least now if things do stay cooler, they can say it doesn&#039;t change things, just a pause, and point out how they&#039;ve already posted about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;I doubt RC agrees with Swanson</p>
<p>Maybe not, but at least now if things do stay cooler, they can say it doesn&#8217;t change things, just a pause, and point out how they&#8217;ve already posted about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Boris</title>
		<link>http://rankexploits.com/musings/2009/hadsst-highest-values-since-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-16217</link>
		<dc:creator>Boris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 01:42:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rankexploits.com/musings/?p=5865#comment-16217</guid>
		<description>I doubt RC agrees with Swanson, but did want to give him an opportunity to put his paper into context.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I doubt RC agrees with Swanson, but did want to give him an opportunity to put his paper into context.</p>
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		<title>By: hunter</title>
		<link>http://rankexploits.com/musings/2009/hadsst-highest-values-since-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-16204</link>
		<dc:creator>hunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:32:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rankexploits.com/musings/?p=5865#comment-16204</guid>
		<description>Not to make too much of the Le Châtelier Braun principle,
but at least some people think it works on large scale systems.
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2009GReGr..41....1P	
I am not suggesting that climate be forced to fit into LCB. I am suggesting that the LCB might help make more sense of the data.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to make too much of the Le Châtelier Braun principle,<br />
but at least some people think it works on large scale systems.<br />
<a href="http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2009GReGr..41....1P" >http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/.....&#8230;.1P</a><br />
I am not suggesting that climate be forced to fit into LCB. I am suggesting that the LCB might help make more sense of the data.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew_KY</title>
		<link>http://rankexploits.com/musings/2009/hadsst-highest-values-since-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-16202</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew_KY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:51:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rankexploits.com/musings/?p=5865#comment-16202</guid>
		<description>MikeN,

Just for clarity, can we tell with certainty that RC is:

a) predicting a pause in Global Warming? or
b) projecting a pause in Global Warming? or
c) something else?

I ask seriously because as a Denier, I can only interpret this as a small defeat for the AGW Movement. The books are still cooking. Why turn down the heat? It&#039;s not like we are currently experiencing a mass exodus from the AGW ranks. Or are we?

Andrew</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MikeN,</p>
<p>Just for clarity, can we tell with certainty that RC is:</p>
<p>a) predicting a pause in Global Warming? or<br />
b) projecting a pause in Global Warming? or<br />
c) something else?</p>
<p>I ask seriously because as a Denier, I can only interpret this as a small defeat for the AGW Movement. The books are still cooking. Why turn down the heat? It&#8217;s not like we are currently experiencing a mass exodus from the AGW ranks. Or are we?</p>
<p>Andrew</p>
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		<title>By: lucia</title>
		<link>http://rankexploits.com/musings/2009/hadsst-highest-values-since-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-16201</link>
		<dc:creator>lucia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:51:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rankexploits.com/musings/?p=5865#comment-16201</guid>
		<description>Mike N--
Yes.  I also read the paper, which, then suggests that the trend that existed prior to 1998 would resume. It does not, however suggest what that trend might be. 2.0C/century? Well... that didn&#039;t exist for very long.  So, 1.4 C/century?  Who knows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike N&#8211;<br />
Yes.  I also read the paper, which, then suggests that the trend that existed prior to 1998 would resume. It does not, however suggest what that trend might be. 2.0C/century? Well&#8230; that didn&#8217;t exist for very long.  So, 1.4 C/century?  Who knows.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeN</title>
		<link>http://rankexploits.com/musings/2009/hadsst-highest-values-since-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-16200</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:40:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rankexploits.com/musings/?p=5865#comment-16200</guid>
		<description>Have you seen the latest post on RealClimate suggesting a pause in global warming til 2020?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you seen the latest post on RealClimate suggesting a pause in global warming til 2020?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://rankexploits.com/musings/2009/hadsst-highest-values-since-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-16198</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 14:06:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rankexploits.com/musings/?p=5865#comment-16198</guid>
		<description>DG, thanks for showing that SST/UAH ocean plot.  I agree, it is difficult to see a lag for the 97/98 data.  However, right at the beginning of the time series I would argue that you can see the lagged response of UAH ocean.  Also, for the current time period the lag is obvious. Furthermore, the AMSU daily temps have been rising and imply that July will see quite a jump in the satellite temps, so one would assume that UAH ocean would follow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DG, thanks for showing that SST/UAH ocean plot.  I agree, it is difficult to see a lag for the 97/98 data.  However, right at the beginning of the time series I would argue that you can see the lagged response of UAH ocean.  Also, for the current time period the lag is obvious. Furthermore, the AMSU daily temps have been rising and imply that July will see quite a jump in the satellite temps, so one would assume that UAH ocean would follow.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Illis</title>
		<link>http://rankexploits.com/musings/2009/hadsst-highest-values-since-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-16197</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Illis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 13:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rankexploits.com/musings/?p=5865#comment-16197</guid>
		<description>The biggest El Nino that we know about (reconstructed temperatures for more accurately that is) was 130 years ago in 1877-78.  That El Nino peaked at +3.4C versus the 1997-98 El Nino at +2.8C.

Hadcrut3 global temps peaked at +0.364C in 1878 (versus last month&#039;s Hadcrut3 at +0.400C).  HadSST2 peaked at +0.264C in 1878 (versus last month at +0.500C).

So, there are cycles up and cycles down which is more clear with a longer-term perspective [and don&#039;t forget, they have been playing around with these historical indices (SSTs and land surface measurements) and past temperatures were almost certainly higher than is being recorded in the databases now.]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The biggest El Nino that we know about (reconstructed temperatures for more accurately that is) was 130 years ago in 1877-78.  That El Nino peaked at +3.4C versus the 1997-98 El Nino at +2.8C.</p>
<p>Hadcrut3 global temps peaked at +0.364C in 1878 (versus last month&#8217;s Hadcrut3 at +0.400C).  HadSST2 peaked at +0.264C in 1878 (versus last month at +0.500C).</p>
<p>So, there are cycles up and cycles down which is more clear with a longer-term perspective [and don't forget, they have been playing around with these historical indices (SSTs and land surface measurements) and past temperatures were almost certainly higher than is being recorded in the databases now.]</p>
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		<title>By: VG</title>
		<link>http://rankexploits.com/musings/2009/hadsst-highest-values-since-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-16196</link>
		<dc:creator>VG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:08:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rankexploits.com/musings/?p=5865#comment-16196</guid>
		<description>Just now SBS Australia has reported the Skeptic side (protesters outside Gore’s talk etc) not even mentioning anything about Gore’s AGW talk but the skeptic’s view that Gore’s AGW theories all unproven. This is quite extraordinary as both the ABC (Australia) and SBS have rigourously towed the AGW line.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just now SBS Australia has reported the Skeptic side (protesters outside Gore’s talk etc) not even mentioning anything about Gore’s AGW talk but the skeptic’s view that Gore’s AGW theories all unproven. This is quite extraordinary as both the ABC (Australia) and SBS have rigourously towed the AGW line.</p>
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		<title>By: DG</title>
		<link>http://rankexploits.com/musings/2009/hadsst-highest-values-since-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-16193</link>
		<dc:creator>DG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 01:39:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rankexploits.com/musings/?p=5865#comment-16193</guid>
		<description>Adam, yes I understand the lag issue, however going back and starting Jan 97, I fail to see the similarity between then and now.
http://tinyurl.com/nxgm4g
&lt;img src=&quot;http://tinyurl.com/nxgm4g&quot; width=&quot;500&quot;&gt;

If there&#039;s a lag, I sure don&#039;t see any pattern. Something isn&#039;t right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam, yes I understand the lag issue, however going back and starting Jan 97, I fail to see the similarity between then and now.<br />
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/nxgm4g" >http://tinyurl.com/nxgm4g</a><br />
<img src="http://tinyurl.com/nxgm4g" width="500"/></p>
<p>If there&#8217;s a lag, I sure don&#8217;t see any pattern. Something isn&#8217;t right.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Tisdale</title>
		<link>http://rankexploits.com/musings/2009/hadsst-highest-values-since-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-16188</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Tisdale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 23:34:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rankexploits.com/musings/?p=5865#comment-16188</guid>
		<description>Alexander Harvey:  You wrote, &quot;Drops in OHC occured in the following years.
&quot;1957, 63/64, 66-68, 72, 76, 78/79, 81/83, 86, 90, 92, 98, 2001, 05, &amp; 07.&quot;

It depends whose OHC data you refer to:
http://i44.tinypic.com/5uizit.png
&lt;img src=&quot;http://i44.tinypic.com/5uizit.png&quot; width=&quot;500&quot;&gt;

The graph is from my post on the data presented by Levitus et al:
http://bobtisdale.blogspot.com/2009/07/ohc-trends-presented-by-levitus-et-al.html

Regards</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alexander Harvey:  You wrote, &#8220;Drops in OHC occured in the following years.<br />
&#8220;1957, 63/64, 66-68, 72, 76, 78/79, 81/83, 86, 90, 92, 98, 2001, 05, &amp; 07.&#8221;</p>
<p>It depends whose OHC data you refer to:<br />
<a href="http://i44.tinypic.com/5uizit.png" >http://i44.tinypic.com/5uizit.png</a><br />
<img src="http://i44.tinypic.com/5uizit.png" width="500"/></p>
<p>The graph is from my post on the data presented by Levitus et al:<br />
<a href="http://bobtisdale.blogspot.com/2009/07/ohc-trends-presented-by-levitus-et-al.html" >http://bobtisdale.blogspot.com.....et-al.html</a></p>
<p>Regards</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Tisdale</title>
		<link>http://rankexploits.com/musings/2009/hadsst-highest-values-since-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-16187</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Tisdale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 23:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rankexploits.com/musings/?p=5865#comment-16187</guid>
		<description>Lucia:  The OI.v2 version of Global SST anomaly data is showing a similar upsurge:
http://i30.tinypic.com/2h7qpw6.png
&lt;img src=&quot;http://i30.tinypic.com/2h7qpw6.png&quot; width=&quot;500&quot;&gt;

But, unlike the HADSST data, the 2003 and 2005 peaks in the OI.v2 version are higher than June 2009.

An SST anomaly map:
http://i26.tinypic.com/23tl3xg.jpg
&lt;img src=&quot;http://i26.tinypic.com/23tl3xg.jpg&quot; width=&quot;500&quot;&gt;

The two biggest contributors to the increase last month were the North Pacific with a rise of 0.24 deg C and the North Atlantic with a rise of 0.19 deg C. 

From my monthly update for June 2009:
http://bobtisdale.blogspot.com/2009/07/june-2009-sst-anomaly-update.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lucia:  The OI.v2 version of Global SST anomaly data is showing a similar upsurge:<br />
<a href="http://i30.tinypic.com/2h7qpw6.png" >http://i30.tinypic.com/2h7qpw6.png</a><br />
<img src="http://i30.tinypic.com/2h7qpw6.png" width="500"/></p>
<p>But, unlike the HADSST data, the 2003 and 2005 peaks in the OI.v2 version are higher than June 2009.</p>
<p>An SST anomaly map:<br />
<a href="http://i26.tinypic.com/23tl3xg.jpg" >http://i26.tinypic.com/23tl3xg.jpg</a><br />
<img src="http://i26.tinypic.com/23tl3xg.jpg" width="500"/></p>
<p>The two biggest contributors to the increase last month were the North Pacific with a rise of 0.24 deg C and the North Atlantic with a rise of 0.19 deg C. </p>
<p>From my monthly update for June 2009:<br />
<a href="http://bobtisdale.blogspot.com/2009/07/june-2009-sst-anomaly-update.html" >http://bobtisdale.blogspot.com.....pdate.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Andrew_FL</title>
		<link>http://rankexploits.com/musings/2009/hadsst-highest-values-since-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-16183</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew_FL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:41:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rankexploits.com/musings/?p=5865#comment-16183</guid>
		<description>Yeah, just a little speculation on my part :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, just a little speculation on my part <img src='http://rankexploits.com/musings/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: hunter</title>
		<link>http://rankexploits.com/musings/2009/hadsst-highest-values-since-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-16180</link>
		<dc:creator>hunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 18:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rankexploits.com/musings/?p=5865#comment-16180</guid>
		<description>Jonathan,
I appreciate not trying to do too much deduction, especially at the expense of observation. 
It would appear to me that observation shows feedbacks of very limited range, like the El Nino.
The ocean heats up, heat leaves the ocean, and it cools back down. {very simplified} It flips from El Nino to La Nina, but behavior clusters around a center.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan,<br />
I appreciate not trying to do too much deduction, especially at the expense of observation.<br />
It would appear to me that observation shows feedbacks of very limited range, like the El Nino.<br />
The ocean heats up, heat leaves the ocean, and it cools back down. {very simplified} It flips from El Nino to La Nina, but behavior clusters around a center.</p>
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		<title>By: lucia</title>
		<link>http://rankexploits.com/musings/2009/hadsst-highest-values-since-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-16178</link>
		<dc:creator>lucia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 17:12:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rankexploits.com/musings/?p=5865#comment-16178</guid>
		<description>Andrew--
We&#039;ve had warming over longer time periods for some time now.  In terms of what I look at the question is only: Do the models accurately predict (or project) the magnitude.  

On this graph, I only showed the line as a connect the dots.  Adam pointed out we may be  near comparable points in terms of the MEI index, so this might be a rough guide to comparing this SST level to previous ones. (Or not.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew&#8211;<br />
We&#8217;ve had warming over longer time periods for some time now.  In terms of what I look at the question is only: Do the models accurately predict (or project) the magnitude.  </p>
<p>On this graph, I only showed the line as a connect the dots.  Adam pointed out we may be  near comparable points in terms of the MEI index, so this might be a rough guide to comparing this SST level to previous ones. (Or not.)</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew_FL</title>
		<link>http://rankexploits.com/musings/2009/hadsst-highest-values-since-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-16176</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew_FL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 16:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rankexploits.com/musings/?p=5865#comment-16176</guid>
		<description>Hm, interest that the connect the dots line in the new graph is almost parallel to the trend line over the entire period. Coincidence? Or has modest warming returned?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hm, interest that the connect the dots line in the new graph is almost parallel to the trend line over the entire period. Coincidence? Or has modest warming returned?</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://rankexploits.com/musings/2009/hadsst-highest-values-since-1998/comment-page-1/#comment-16175</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 16:32:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rankexploits.com/musings/?p=5865#comment-16175</guid>
		<description>In essence	Le Chatelier applies to simple changes made to simple systems.  Whatever the climate system is, it is not simple, and claiming that Le Chatelier like behaviour &lt;b&gt;must&lt;/b&gt; occur is naive.  Personally I think it&#039;s more helpful to study the actual behaviour of the system, rather than to try to deduce it from dubious arguments from first principles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In essence	Le Chatelier applies to simple changes made to simple systems.  Whatever the climate system is, it is not simple, and claiming that Le Chatelier like behaviour <b>must</b> occur is naive.  Personally I think it&#8217;s more helpful to study the actual behaviour of the system, rather than to try to deduce it from dubious arguments from first principles.</p>
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