On the previous thread, Tom’s comment caught my eye. In it, he links <\/p>\n
Tom Scharf (Comment #167715) <\/a><\/p>\n
White working class comedy gets a huge audience and success, NYT predictably pees their pants.
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\n\u00e2\u20ac\u02dcRoseanne\u00e2\u20ac\u2122: When a Punch Line Feels Like a Gut Punch
\nhttps:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/2018\/04\/13\/arts\/television\/roseanne-bad-joke-controversy-kelvin-yu.html<\/a>
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\nEverything wrong with political correctness summed up nicely in one article. Though this is a 1000 words devoted to almost nothing, it is the high brows making sure Roseanne is outside the Overton window. You have been warned.<\/p><\/blockquote>\nNaturally, I clicked and read the article by Kelvin Yu. Given Tom’s observation, you might think I’m going to discuss PC. But. No. I’m going on a complete tangent. \ud83d\ude42 <\/p>\n
In the article, Kelvin Yu complains about Roseanne breaking the fourth wall and poses this rhetorical question:<\/p>\n
“When was the last time you heard someone on \u00e2\u20ac\u0153NCIS: New Orleans\u00e2\u20ac\u009d go: \u00e2\u20ac\u0153Quick! The killer\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s getting away with the serum! Maybe \u00e2\u20ac\u02dcKevin Can Wait\u00e2\u20ac\u2122 \u00e2\u20ac\u00a6 but we sure can\u00e2\u20ac\u2122t!\u00e2\u20ac\u009d”<\/p><\/blockquote>\n
Many of you know my view on arguing by rhetorical questions. And Kelvin Yu has given me a golden opportunity to blather on about it. <\/p>\n
I think Yu’s use is a perfect example of that using rhetorical questions is often evidence the writer lacks<\/i> good argument to support a claim. This can often be shown by simply answering the question. Often the answer would lead to the opposite<\/i> conclusion the writer appears to be encouraging us to take. In this particular case, the answer is …. uh… The fact that Kelvin Yu and whoever he considers to be included in the pronoun “we” can’t remember<\/i> when this sort of thing happened doesn’t mean something similar to this<\/i> hasn’t happened. It only means that, for some reason, at this very moment, Kelvin Yu and those he considers to be “we” don’t happen to remember it happening. <\/p>\n
I don’t remember not breaking the fourth wall in a tv program, which does not mean something a TV show referencing another tv show this hasn’t happened. What I do know is it’s happened in musicals and movies. Allusions to other popular performances, literature and so on is pretty common in literature. Gilbert and Sullivan’s Penzance has a song that refers back to HMS Pinafore. (See: “Then I can hum a fugue of which I’ve heard the music’s din afore And whistle all the airs from that infernal nonsense Pinafore.”) <\/p>\n
I think Gilbert and Sullivan do similar things in other plays. Audiences tend to find this sort of breaking fourth wall funny. <\/p>\n
Since audiences do<\/I> find it amusing, the fourth wall is sometimes broken in comedy. Some famous cases are discussed here.<\/a> One of the ten movies it mentions is Annie Hall in which Allen breaks the fourth wall by bringing in Marshall McLuhan with the entire scene referencing things happening in the real world.<\/p>\n
Blazing Saddles breaks the fourth wall referencing it’s own director. <\/p>\n
Evidently, Deadpool<\/a> (which I haven’t seen) is chock full of breaking the fourth wall. In particular, it specifically<\/i> alludes to other movies when doing so. (Example: “I’m not going to name names, but it rhymes with Polverine.”) <\/p>\n
Not mentioned above: Clueless<\/a> in which the lead character interjects “I remember Mel Gibson accurately.”. Or Cary Grant in “His Girl Friday”<\/a> mentioning “Archie Leach”.<\/p>\n
So breaking the fourth wall and referencing other shows is hardly something that is “not done”. It is done. Audiences often find these breaks funny.<\/p>\n
I take dance lessons during Roseanne, so I haven’t watched the show. I have no idea if the show is good, nor whether that joke came off as funny or offensive and so on. Kelvin Yu finds it somewhat offensive, so it was to him. That’s fair enough. I even agree with some of what he writes.<\/p>\n
But with respect to the notion that there is something especially bad or wrong with breaking the fourth wall in comedy: Nope. That’s done in comedy. As usual, the fact the only “evidence” it was not done was the author’s rhetorical question was a good clue the author was mistaken. <\/p>\n
Open thread. <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"
On the previous thread, Tom’s comment caught my eye. In it, he links Tom Scharf (Comment #167715) White working class comedy gets a huge audience and success, NYT predictably pees their pants. . \u00e2\u20ac\u02dcRoseanne\u00e2\u20ac\u2122: When a Punch Line Feels Like a Gut Punch https:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/2018\/04\/13\/arts\/television\/roseanne-bad-joke-controversy-kelvin-yu.html . Everything wrong with political correctness summed up nicely in one … Continue reading Is Breaking the Fourth Wall Bad? (Yes, this is rhetorical!)<\/span>