{"id":8005,"date":"2009-11-13T11:57:48","date_gmt":"2009-11-13T17:57:48","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/rankexploits.com\/musings\/?p=8005"},"modified":"2009-11-14T07:28:10","modified_gmt":"2009-11-14T13:28:10","slug":"food-fight-at-climate-blogs-with-poll","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/rankexploits.com\/musings\/2009\/food-fight-at-climate-blogs-with-poll\/","title":{"rendered":"Food fight at climate blogs! (With Poll)"},"content":{"rendered":"

Well, Klotzbach et al (2009) has spawned a food fight in the climate blog wars. Roger Jr. posted a ‘final comment’ Gavin’s the post criticizing both Roger’s and their coauthors.<\/a> Gavin edited Roger Jr’s comment also responding in line (a practice I find really pesky.)<\/p>\n

Roger posted the original comment at his own blog<\/a> so you mentally interlace Gavin’s response with Roger’s full comment.<\/p>\n

For those who have difficulty interlacing themselves, I’ve merged Roger’s comment with Gavin’s response, showed Roger’s comments in purple, Gavin’s in green and insertied my comments. This is almost as much fun as email with my sister!! <\/p>\n

My last comment here:<\/p>\n

Our paper depends upon a warming trend accompanied by increasing greenhouse gas concentrations. It is perfectly consistent with anthropogenic greenhouse warming (in fact it depends on it), and may suggest a mechanism for better reconciling divergent temperature trends at the surface and lower troposphere (See Urs Neu above at #43). The details will be worked out in the literature and our work is certainly not the last word. That is how the peer review process works. I hope that Gavin does submit a comment as that is how science works.<\/font><\/p>\n

[Response: Science would work a lot faster if authors corrected their own work when errors were found. – gavin]<\/font><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Well… yes. For some time, the regulars at Climate Audit<\/a> have been trying to get certain authors at RC to grasp the notion that science would go faster if authors corrected their own work when errors were found. <\/p>\n

But guess what? Just because a non-author (e.g. gavin or stevem) thinks a paper contains a particular error that doesn’t mean the papers authors<\/em> (e.g. Roger or Mann) think the non-author has identified an error. Authors whose papers are accepted by peer reviewers rarely think they are required to ‘correct’ statements they believe are already correct. <\/p>\n

Given the above, it is strange to see the paper characterized here at Real Climate as a “denier” paper with “fatal flaws”, and this goes uncorrected by Gavin. What is it that we are denying? Gavin, do you see our paper as a “denier” paper? Or does it have “fatal flaws”? If not, why don’t you correct those comments here on your blog?<\/strike><\/font><\/p>\n

Response: I’m not in the least bit interested in your bruised feelings because of some manufactured slight that you perceive in the comments. In any case, commenters are responsible for their own words and publication in no way implies that they reflect the views of me or RC as a whole. I’m pretty sure that goes for your blog too. – gavin]<\/font><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

What the hey? What’s with the reference to bruised feelings<\/em> in Gavin’s response to the paragraph he struck entirely? Talk about a non-sequitur! Roger didn’t say anything about his feelings being hurt. My impression is Roger’s hide is thicker than mine (and that’s saying something.)<\/p>\n

Of course, the audience at RC can’t possibly tell Gavin’s response is utterly irrelevant to anything Roger actually wrote because Gavin disappeared Roger’s words!<\/i><\/p>\n

Also, the invitation to Gavin to collaborate on a subsequent piece remains open, however, so far he has declined the invitation. Surely that would be a good opportunity to work together rather than through blogs, which this post shows are not a particularly good way to advance understandings.<\/p>\n

Finally, Gavin, what is the deal with putting no-follow links to my site? Care to explain your reasoning there? \ud83d\ude09<\/strike><\/font><\/p>\n

[Response: That would be great, except… oh, I don’t know,… maybe the fact that you’ve recently called me a liar and a thief and accused me of ‘baiting’ our readers to be mean to you, all the while completely ignoring the pretty mundane substance of the complaint here in lieu of pretending this is just about me wanting a citation in your paper? Nah, that couldn’t be it.<\/p>\n

If I might offer a little advice, you would do well to try and emulate your co-authors, particular your father and Richard McNider (above), who provide good object lessons of how people can disagree over substance and yet discuss issues without getting personal and without misrepresenting the other person’s statements. Try it and see. Who knows where that might get you? Thanks! – gavin]<\/font><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Well… ok. Though I share Roger’s thick skinned, I realize someone as thin skinned as Gavin is not going to collaborate on a paper if he even imagines<\/em> someone has slighted him in anyway in the past. <\/p>\n

But what’s with Gavin suggesting that Roger accused him of being a liar and a thief? <\/p>\n

I’m pretty familiar with Roger’s criticisms of Gavin; I don’t think Roger’s criticism rise to calling Gavin a liar or a thief. I’m aware of last year’s “Trouble with Harry”<\/a> incident, where I interpret Roger of describing Gavin as failing to givecredit<\/em> to those who first discovered the problem with Harry.) But, well… maybe Gavin interprets Roger’s post differently. Or maybe there Gavin is referring to something else. <\/p>\n

I notice Gavin edited the bit about his decision to nofollow links to Roger and Roger’s blogs. <\/p>\n

Too bad. <\/p>\n

On the one hand, Gavin has both the right and power to do whatever he likes with his links. On the other hand, people are going to notice and wonder. I”m pretty darn curious about the ins and outs of Gavin’s “nofollow” policy . In fact, I would invite both Lubos and Gavin to post guest blog discussing the philosophy behind their linking and no-following practices! On the other hand… they obviously aren’t required to tell us anything. (And we aren’t required to reframe from gossiping! Whoo hoo!)<\/p>\n

The Poll<\/h3>\n
\nPoll Ended. Click to view results.<\/b>
\n<\/p>\n


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You may vote for up to four choices.<\/center><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

The poll ends at roughly noon on Sunday. I’m going to pop a beer and watch the polls as they roll in! <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Well, Klotzbach et al (2009) has spawned a food fight in the climate blog wars. Roger Jr. posted a ‘final comment’ Gavin’s the post criticizing both Roger’s and their coauthors. Gavin edited Roger Jr’s comment also responding in line (a practice I find really pesky.) Roger posted the original comment at his own blog so … Continue reading Food fight at climate blogs! (With Poll)<\/span> →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[134],"tags":[303,154],"class_list":["post-8005","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-politics","tag-gavin","tag-roger-pielke"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/rankexploits.com\/musings\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/8005","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/rankexploits.com\/musings\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/rankexploits.com\/musings\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/rankexploits.com\/musings\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/rankexploits.com\/musings\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=8005"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/rankexploits.com\/musings\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/8005\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/rankexploits.com\/musings\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=8005"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/rankexploits.com\/musings\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=8005"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/rankexploits.com\/musings\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=8005"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}