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Chilean Miners, Capitalism, Generosity and Technology.

72 Comments

Like everyone, I was thrilled to see the Chilean miners finally rescued.

This morning, reading Daniel Hanninger’s Capitalism Saved the Miners I learned some interesting trivia:

  • The drill bit used was manufactured by Center Rock Inc. a private company in Berlin, Pa. with only 74 employees. Brandon Fisher, the president of Center Rock phoned Chile to offer his drill bit.
  • “The high-strength cable winding around the big wheel atop that simple rig is from Germany.”
  • “Japan supplied the super-flexible, fiber-optic communications cable that linked the miners to the world above.”
  • “Samsung of South Korea supplied a cellphone that has its own projector.”
  • “Jeffrey Gabbay, the founder of Cupron Inc. in Richmond, Va., supplied socks made with copper fiber that consumed foot bacteria, and minimized odor and infection.” ( “Chile’s health minister, Jaime Manalich, said, “I never realized that kind of thing actually existed.” Me neither!)

Anyway, three cheers for the miners, everyone who worked to get them out, and everyone who developed or donated life saving technologies needed to get the guys out safe and sound!

72 thoughts on “Chilean Miners, Capitalism, Generosity and Technology.”

  1. Shouldn’t they have used locally produced green rescue technologies? What’s an additional 2-3 months in the bowels of the earth weighed against the hideous carbon footprint created by shipping all that stuff to the site from all over the world?

  2. So I guess it was evil communism’s poor safety record that trapped them there in the first place.

  4. Indeed. When individuals/companies who normally operate freely and seperately, freely cooperate on something bigger, ’tis a wonderful thing. Well done, rescuers.

    Andrew

  5. Factors other than capitalism have been mentioned in the WSJ and elsewhere. Not trivia. Jeff Hart, the drill operator who broke through to the miners was drilling water wells for U.S. Army bases in Afghanistan when he was called to help with the rescue. NASA helped with the design of the extraction capsule. President Piñera insisted on an all-out rescue effort.

  6. Yeah, I just had a huge argument last night with my friends who are all extremely far left. They were furious that I said the BP oil spill was not nearly as bad as advertised.

  7. Shoosh–

    They were furious that I said the BP oil spill was not nearly as bad as advertised.

    I’m not sure which advertisement you are comparing it’s badness to. The spill was pretty dang bad.

  8. M. Jeff–
    Yes. It’s just that I’d read those other factors before. Until today, I hadn’t read of the small, unrelated groups who volunteered services and materials. That might just be me– I didn’t read every news story on this published everywhere. But I had read of government actions–all of which were laudable.

    Sorry if I gave the impression this was a purely non-gov. action. It certainly wasn’t.

  9. lucia (Comment#54313) October 14th, 2010 at 7:58 am

    dorlomin–
    Are you saying that’s your opinion? No one else has suggested it.
    = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
    Nope I am just pointing out that “capitalism” also got them in their predicament.

  10. “President Piñera insisted on an all-out rescue effort.”

    M.Jeff,

    And prolly rightly so. But let’s be honest. Was he going to call for a half-a$$ed rescue effort?

    Andrew

  11. dorlomin:

    Nope I am just pointing out that “capitalism” also got them in their predicament.

    Everything has a cost/risk associated with it.

    The issue here is a “well-regulated free market”. It’s interesting how many people think the “free” means free from regulation, rather than “free from government interference on supply and demand”.

    Dolormin immediately assumes that it’s the free market at fault, rather than the (now) fired government regulator. Interesting how that works.

  13. lucia (Comment#54323) October 14th, 2010 at 8:45 am

    dorlomin–
    Yes, accidents happen in both capitalist and communist systems. No one has suggested otherwise.
    = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
    Accidents tend to happen a lot less frequently in countries with good regulations that are enforced. The company was well known for its poor safety record. But drawing attention to this would not be in the spirit of ‘capitalism saved the miners’ would it.

  14. “Accidents tend to happen a lot less frequently in countries with good regulations that are enforced. The company was well known for its poor safety record. But drawing attention to this would not be in the spirit of ‘capitalism saved the miners’ would it.”

    I think mining is dangerous to miners no matter what broad political system you prefer.

    “Good regulation” enforcement would have had to come from someone local, if it was going to be effective. A system is only as good as the people who operate in it.

    Andrew

  15. lucia (Comment#54318), October 14th, 2010 at 8:34 am

    My intention was to laud others who contributed to the rescue, I did not mean to suggest that you were not aware of the other factors.

  16. And there are plenty of anti-globalisation organisations, like attac, that just can’t see the obvious benefits of the open exchange of ideas, services and products.
    I may be mistaken, by isn’t his name Daniel Henninger at the WSJ?

  17. If you look at the performance and safety records of communist countries, then there is only one conclusion you can make: these systems are death traps.
    Of course we could adopt a socialist type of system with all its regulations, but then companies would be regulated against doing anything, and so no industrial accidents could happen. In fact, very little happens at all in these boring countries.
    There is in my view a Laffer curve of benefit as a function of regulation. The world is not perfect…we can only try to zero in on the most optimum point.

  18. Chile is one of the more economically free Latin American countries. Actually, in it’s region it’s ranked number one in 29, and is ranked tenth in the world, just two behind the US.

    I don’t want to get into a debate about this, but it is worth saying that Chile has done rather well on a continent where leftist dictatorships trampling on property rights is the norm.

  19. The director of mine safety (whatever his title) was sacked after this fiasco too.

    Regulations are useless unless they are properly enforced.

  20. I tend to agree with P. Gosselin. I think the trouble with the “communist” approach is that the regulators are also the do’ers, i.e. they regulate themselves. This is not unique to communism (although health, safety, and the environment are not general concerns in such countries). I think you can come up with countless examples where corruption or laziness in the capitalist system produces the same thing. Another example would be the Army Corp of Engineers who both create, review, and implement their own plans (think N.O. levees pre-Katrina).

  21. Accidents can always happen as we have seen here or with the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. But the probability rises when respect for human life and thus human freedom is sacrificed for a higher motive, it being to fulfill the five-year’s plan or profits.

    Rgds.
    Troels

  22. Re: M.Jeff ,

    My intention was to laud others who contributed to the rescue, I did not mean to suggest that you were not aware of the other factors.

    You know.. this occurred to me while I was at the gym. Sorry for the misunderstanding on my part.

    Dorlormin–

    Accidents tend to happen a lot less frequently in countries with good regulations that are enforced. The company was well known for its poor safety record. But drawing attention to this would not be in the spirit of ‘capitalism saved the miners’ would it.

    I don’t have any objection to good safety regulations. Of course good safety regulations reduce accidents. I also don’t see safety regulations being “anti-capitalist”.

    If you meant better safety regulations, or better enforcement of safety regulations might have prevented this accident, you might have just said that. Your oblique quip making what appears to be an ironic remark involving communism made it difficult for me to understand what you were suggesting. That’s why I asked you a question.

    As long as you brought up communism in your quip: Lots of accidents happen in communist regimes. Communists regimes have sometimes been known to have ineffective regulations of all sorts the capital regimes and/or enforce them haphazardly. Examples include building codes, pollution regulations and all sorts of industrial codes. I have no idea whether communist countries have better or worse mining safety records than capitalist countries. Do you you have any statistics on that?

  23. Per capita income (in real terms) has tripled in Chile since 1990. Their personal account investment based national retirement system, in operation since 1981, has no unfunded liabilities, and was designed by a group of University of Chicago trained Chilean economists. Think about that, no unfunded liabilities.. gee.

  24. Yes, the rescue was very impressive. As was the conduct of the miners themselves.

    An article from a northern Ontario newspaper describes a Canadian contribution
    http://www.nugget.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2770914

    As to the copper-fiber socks, I have a pair from a local retailer Mark’s Work Wearhouse – they cost about $9. I got a pair of Coast Mountain silver-fiber socks ($20) last year for traveling. They’re great.

  28. Lucia, you are completely wrong. First, please do not misunderstand me. Obviously, it would have been better had the oil spill not happened at all. However, you have to have a reference point, and the reference point is other oil spills. Let us compare, shall we?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1301002/BP-oil-spill-Why-claims-Gulf-Mexico-historys-worst-oil-spill-cynical-spin-campaign-ever.html

    Now, I want you to explain to me why the Bolivian weather event was not covered. Millions of aquatic animals died and there was 0 reporting. Lucia, the best advice I can give you is to listen to Rush Limbaugh. I know you probably think he is stupid but in fact he is a genius. He has been fully accurate in assessing the Obama presidency and the only one who said the oil spill impact was over estimated. I hope everyone remembers that Rush was the original skeptic of global warming, he is tremendously brave.

  29. The WSJ article is total joke. Obama was blasting that mindless “the magical hand of the free market will solve all our problems! Just get the government out of the way!” mentality. He was criticizing market fundamentalism, not capitalism.

  30. Shoosh-
    You said “was not nearly as bad as advertised.” The reference point in that claim is to whatever was “advertised”, not to past spills.

    Rush is irritating to listen to as are many radio hosts on both the left and right.

  31. Lucia,
    “Rush is irritating to listen to as are many radio hosts on both the left and right.”

    And I think it’s even worse on TV…. I have a hard time not shouting “idiot” at the screen.

  33. “And I think it’s even worse on TV…. I have a hard time not shouting “idiot” at the screen.”

    SteveF,

    Statement Frequently Heard From Andrew @ Mom’s House:

    “Mom, don’t yell at the TV.”

    Andrew

  34. I made a deal with my wife: She doesn’t have to listen to Rush and I don’t have to listen to Democracy Now.

  36. Re: DeWitt Payne,
    We solve a fair amount of screaming at the TV by not getting cable. There is still a certain amount of what I would call personality driven reporting masquerading as news appearing on our set, but less.

  37. lucia:
    I suppose that even with the generous subsidy from taxpayers, the BBC still has some budget limitations. I also suspect that they probably don’t mind transferring resources to a popular current story away from the upcoming snoozer in Cancun.

  38. George–
    Have any non-subsidized news agencies reported that covering Chile busted their budgets so they can’t cover Davos, Cancun, the Oscars etc?

  40. SteveF: “I have a hard time not shouting “idiot” at the screen.”

    Why restrain yourself? Especially in this hour of pre-election fervor*, when there are scads of campaign ads on TV, I find it most satisfactory to talk back to the idiot du jour. Unfortunately, this does not seem to result in a reduction of the frequency of idiocy. Go figure.

    *”hour” — yeah, right. Electioneering has grown from weeks to months. Sometimes I wonder if there’s any out-of-season for political ads.

  41. lucia
    Of course good safety regulations reduce accidents. I also don’t see safety regulations being “anti-capitalist”.
    = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
    A company in persuit of profit cut corners on safety. People got trapped and nearly died. Across the world peoples lives are regularly put at risk by cutting corners for safety. So you tell the world how wonderfull capitalism is because a group of companies basicly donated products to get them mentioned on TV. Do you think if the cameras were not there there would have been Oakley sunglasses and expensive lingery for the wives? Do you think there will be all the assistance for the next fatal accident in Latin America? Capitalism does what it says on the tin, seeks to maximise the return on capital invested. Its not good, its not evil, its just a tool.
    Andrew_FL (Comment#54330)
    I don’t want to get into a debate about this, but it is worth saying that Chile has done rather well on a continent where leftist dictatorships trampling on property rights is the norm.
    = = = = = = = = = = =
    Over 2000 Chileans were murdered by the rightwing dictator, so you get double joy. The murder of leftwingers AND the aristocratic elite enjoy the pleasures of the hacienda with no threat of redistributing the land. Let freedom ring.
    Mind you Pinochet was a bit of a wimp compared to the Argentinians, they managed to get 20 000 left wingers. Now that is real economic freedom!

  42. As a friend of someone who was imprisoned for 4 years under the Pinochet regime and another who managed to dodge machine gun fire by a whisker, I agree with dorlomin. Whether or not you are a supporter of Chavez, Morales et al, they have not brutalised their opponents anywhere near to the degree of the past ultra-right regimes of Pinochet and the Argentinian generals.

  43. I would like to congratulate President Pinera, who rather than immediately pointing fingers, casting blame, and launching lawsuits, insisted on the best efforts no matter who did it, and stood back and encouraged those who did the work. When it was done, he thanked all the countries involved. A leader that Chile can be proud of. What a great ending to a potentional tragedy.

  44. I watched a documentary about the Chilean rescue and somebody said there that the mine, where the disaster happened was well known for poor safety, which the owners balanced by salaries to miners somewhat higher than in other mines.
    The owners probably thought this is a good business plan. Until that day.
    And concerning the high-tech equipment and gifts to miners and their families – all this definitely makes good publicity plus there is a chance of testing these products in difficult conditions. So it’s not done solely of pure love of thy neighbor.

  45. Re: Steve’s copper/silver socks, underwear, etc..
    While I have no doubt that these products work well I have serious concerns about using them.

    It seems to me that by using the anti-bacterial effect for socks that don’t stink and the like that it is inevitable that we will breed up resistant forms in short order. Given the medical usage for such technology in such areas as burn treatment I find that extremely short sited.

    To be clear, this isn’t meant as criticism toward Steve, the miners, or anyone else using the products today but rather as a discussion point for something I’ve been concerned about for some time.

    bob

  46. EW

    So it’s not done solely of pure love of thy neighbor.

    Agreed. This is an example where people’s financial self interest can result in benefits to their neighbors.

    I suspect this was both though. The man makes the bits has been trying to get governments to fund a standing rescue operation– sort of like fire departments. I’m sure his efforts are motivated both by knowledge they would use his bits and knowledge that disasters happen with some frequency and, when outfitted with his bit, rescue is possible in cases where it was previously impossible. I suspect even if he donated the bits, he thinks he could later use the proof of their effectiveness and market more. The WSJ interviewed him and he reports that his company is receiving more calls as a result of the publicity.

    Of course, if we want to be cynics, we can also say that Pinera didn’t insist on an all out effort for love of his neighbors, but for election publicity. The woman in charge of drilling didn’t do that for love of her neighbors but because she was paid. Etc. NASA (which is after all an agency, not even an independent person with real emotions ) didn’t volunteer advice for love of neighbors but to curry favor with the American public to get more funding. Well…. in all cases, maybe kinda-sorta both.

  47. EW,

    So politicians/businessmen/human beings motives are never pure/can always be questioned, even when they do something good.

    I guess this principle can extend to Environmentalists, Communists, and Progressives, too.

    Andrew

  48. Andrew_KY–
    Your Roman Catholic. You should know people’s motives are never pure. Moreover, they can only avoid sin through the grace of God. 🙂

    I think one of the strengths of the US Constitution is that it was written by people who knew their own motives and those of others are never pure. That’s why we have all the checks and balances, federalism etc.

  49. “Andrew_KY–
    Your Roman Catholic. You should know people’s motives are never pure. Moreover, they can only avoid sin through the grace of God.”

    Lucia,

    Quite true. I was just pointing out that the “holier than thou” attitude knows no political or religious or geographic or economic boundaries. People, even myself, need to be reminded every once in awhile that good behavior is always valuable (whatever is going on in your mind), and being “right” while other people are “wrong” in your own mind, is often meaningless.

    Andrew

  50. I’m just detecting a lot of sexism from Lucia on this one. Lucia, you said the oil spill was pretty bad and you said that because the media totally overhyped the impact. Also, there is great proof in the fact that BP’s stock initially went down but then went back up 10 dollars. And I think the idiot media did such a poor job of reporting that it contributed to the idiotic drilling moratorium. The Exxon Valdez spill was much worse than this and drilling didn’t get shut down. I just find it amazing that Rush was pretty much the only person who predicted minor impacts, it is very courageous. Also, did anyone see that the scientist cited Rush’s hurricane predictions? We may have to start calling him Dr. Rush, expert climatologist

  51. Re: dr. shooshmon, phd. ,
    Sexism?

    I said the oil spill was pretty bad replying to you

    They were furious that I said the BP oil spill was not nearly as bad as advertised.

    I’m not sure which advertisement you are comparing it’s badness to. The spill was pretty dang bad.

    Seems to me the spill was pretty dang bad, and it’s pretty dang bad relative to how it was “advertised”. I think that opinion in my head was my motive for responding to your comment in this way.

    I don’t know why you think my motive for saying that was “because the media totally overhyped the impact.” And what would this heck would either motive have to do with sexism?

    As for the rest:

    * What does any of it have to do with your original claim relative to how bad the spill was relative to how it was “advertised”? I should think you would have to explain how you think to support you initial claim, you would have to explain how you think it was advertised and compare reality to the advertisement. Instead, you are comparing to past spills.

    *How in the world would my pointing this out have anything to do with “sexism”?!

  52. Lucia,
    “I think one of the strengths of the US Constitution is that it was written by people who knew their own motives and those of others are never pure. That’s why we have all the checks and balances, federalism etc.”

    Maybe so, but being human, I suspect they were more concerned about the impure motives of others! The constitution was a grand compromise between equal representation of individuals and equal representation of states. The compromise still chafes under the saddles of many, especially on the left; and I don’t think this will change. I think the genius of the constitution is the use of enumerated powers, separation of powers, and checks and balances to finesse mistrust using a power structure which almost guarantees gridlock on contentious issues.

  53. I hope this accident induces mines all over the world not only to have “safe regions”, where trapped miners could find shelter, but also communication to those regions. It is amazing that they were trying for 17 days to drill a hole to the safe region to check if anybody managed to shelter there. They succeeded on the eighth trial. If a communication channel had been in place when the safe region was constructed the miners would have been saved a lot of fear and hardship.

  54. Dorlomin, don’t get me started on Mass Murderers. Stalin and Mao are the kings of that. But you miss some important points. In case you haven’t noticed, Chile is not a dictatorship anymore. It’s politically free, too. That occurred as a direct consequence of the economic freedom. And the economic reforms are mostly still in place. So while you may rave about “murder” and how who implemented the reforms discredits them, Chile was able to separate the policies of political repression from the policies of economic liberty. You should be able to do so, too. That you can’t, and the words you just used, indicates to me that you are a typical far left lunatic that just bashes Capitalism all day long.

  55. Re: SteveF ,

    Maybe so, but being human, I suspect they were more concerned about the impure motives of others!

    I read a biography of John Adams- I don’t remember the author. But Adams seemed to be constantly writing (letters to all and sundry, in the margins of books etc.) If I recall correctly, he is “on record” as suspecting his own motives and advocating that constitutions must be based on impure motives of everyone, including himself!

    Of course, I have no citation. . .

  56. Re: Don Wagner ,

    I would like to congratulate President Pinera, who rather than immediately pointing fingers, casting blame, and launching lawsuits, insisted on the best efforts no matter who did it, and stood back and encouraged those who did the work. When it was done, he thanked all the countries involved. A leader that Chile can be proud of. What a great ending to a potentional tragedy.

    I agree. Pinera was a class act during this whole thing.

  57. Lucia,
    “Of course, I have no citation. . .”

    Didn’t Wegman’s troubles teach you the dangers of paraphrasing without proper citation?

    “The essence of a free government consists in an effectual control of rivalries.”
    John Adams
    (Sorry, no other citation, hehe.)

  58. I don’t have an explanation
    For another lonely night
    I just feel this sense of mission
    And the sense of what is right

    Take it easy on me now
    I’d be there if I could
    I’m so full of what is right
    I can’t see what is good

    It’s a hopeless situation
    Lie awake for half the night
    You’re not sure what’s going on here
    But you’re sure it isn’t right

    Make it easy on yourself
    There’s nothing more you can do
    You’re so full of what is right
    You can’t see what is true

    A quality of justice
    A quantity of light
    A particle of mercy
    Makes the color of right

    -Rush

  59. Andrew_FL (Comment#54399)
    Dorlomin, don’t get me started on Mass Murderers. Stalin and Mao are the kings of that,
    – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    Which South American countries were they dictators of now?

    So while you may rave about “murder”
    – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    “murder” why the quote marks. Grow a spine it was murder.

    Chile was able to separate the policies of political repression from the policies of economic liberty.
    – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    The policies of repression were specifically aimed at enforcing the economic liberty to over throw the democratically left wing Allende.

    far left lunatic that just bashes Capitalism all day long
    – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    Oh yes thats me, Leon Trotsky II 😉

  60. I notice the one thing you still have no addressed:

    “In case you haven’t noticed, Chile is not a dictatorship anymore. It’s politically free, too. That occurred as a direct consequence of the economic freedom. And the economic reforms are mostly still in place.”

    No rebuttal of the fact that, whatever you may think of the Junta (Dorlomin can’t seem to get past it, it’s all he can think about) Chile is now free. And prosperous. Unable to say that Chile is not prosperous and not free, Dorlomin is saying “yeah, but look what they had to do to get there!” What exactly is the point to that? I would never suggest using a dictatorship to achieve those ends, it would have been preferable to get the reforms the “right way”, but there is no playing Monday morning Quarterback with History. Chile is now free in economic and political terms. How it got there does nothing to diminish that it is a good thing.

    By the way, the complaint that Stalin and Mao are not Latin American dictators…I guess your point is that Eastern Europeans and Asians don’t count as people who can be murdered. What you were calling murder, I am not clear on the specifics of, so whether I would have used the term murder, which I define fairly narrowly, to refer to what you were talking about, well, I don’t know. I am not up on the exact details of what the Junta did that was so horrible, unlike you. But I don’t need to be to understand that complaining about how bad the Junta was, does not diminish the fact that the market reforms were a good thing.

  61. Andrew_FL (Comment#54408) October 15th, 2010 at 11:51 am
    No rebuttal of the fact that, whatever you may think of the Junta
    – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    Well we know what you think of them. They were the agents of economic freedom and only “murdered” people.
    Chile is now free.
    – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    No thanks to the US or the Chilean army. And yes, awesome to see people free to express themselves without being tortured.

    but there is no playing Monday morning Quarterback with History
    – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    Oh thats good because I thought you were talking about Stalin and Mao.

    I guess your point is that Eastern Europeans and Asians don’t count as people who can be murdered.
    – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    Trust me my little friend, I know one hell of alot more about regimes that have murdered and who sponsered them than you.

    You started by cheering the fact Chile was not a ‘left wing dictatorship’, now throw hissy fits when it is pointed out it was a murderous thugging right wing dictatorship with the glowing approval of America. So what is it, we should only look at whether it has been a left wing dictatorship and ignore the American sponsered murderous thuggery? Fair enough I see your point, we need a ‘fair and balanced’ view of history. One designed to fit a narrative rather than the record facts.

  62. Dorlomin, clearly you are just totally unreasonable. If I praise the economic reforms, I must be a Junta supporter. I presume that if you were praising socialism and I called you a supporter of the mass murder and repression of communist regimes because of this, that would be just fine.

    I will say it again, maybe it will get through to you: Chile is free, because of the market reforms. You have yet to get this at all. You just keep complaining about how awful the Junta was. But that is irrelevant to what I am talking about.

  63. Dorlomin,

    Yes, Allende was a bad guy. Yes, he had innocent people murdered. Adolf Hitler was a bad guy, and had lots of people murdered. Ditto Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao, and many others…. the list is long. They came from the left and from the right. They were all murderers. Fortunately, they are all quite dead.

    So what exactly is your point?

    Do you claim that the people in Chile are not not free to choose the politicians they want because of Allende? If that is your claim, then please provide some data to back it up. The Chileans I have spoken with certainly have not suggested to me that is the case. The Chilean economy has grown much faster than most of South America, and Chileans are far more wealthy and healthy than they were 20 years ago.

    What exactly do you want to do to punish a dead Allende? Throw out the currently elected government, void the existing constitution and install a government of Dorlomin’s liking? Chileans have more vested interest in this than you do, and should, I think, be free to choose their own elected leaders.

    Lighten up.

  64. SteveF (Comment#54425) October 15th, 2010 at 3:08 pm
    Dorlomin,
    Yes, Allende was a bad guy. Yes, he had innocent people murdered
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    Can you please provide your source for this information. It is new to me.

    Do you claim that the people in Chile are not not free to choose the politicians they want because of Allende?
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    He has been dead for nearly 40 years.
    Andrew_FL (Comment#54414) October 15th, 2010 at 1:41 pm
    Dorlomin, clearly you are just totally unreasonable. If I praise the economic reforms, I must be a Junta supporter.
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    No you started by both praising the economic reforms and boasting that they were because Chile had no “left wing dictator”. I erred by by correcting you on the point they had had a murderous thuggish rightwing dictator. A mistake, you only wanted one side of the story and I accidently gave the other.

    Chile is free, because of the market reforms.
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    Yes we know. The people who own haciendas have no threat to them. This is true freedom and I salute their freedom. The markets are indeed the greatest innovation in human history.
    But since the subject is on the cards, why is Chile a democracy, what is the time line and who made the decisions….

  66. Let me try to clarify something here, when wealthy owners of companies worry about a governemnt and support a coup that removes a democractically elected left wing government and murders people capitalism is not being bad. People are being bad. When some executive sees a horrible situation on TV and convinces his finance director to allocate funds to help rescue those people, capitalism is not being good, people are. Capitalism is only a tool, people are good or evil.
    Chile’s history does not have an evil left wing dictator, it does have right wing one. Praising it for not being left wing and ignoring the flip side is baised history.

    The world is not a good capitalist vs an evil “left wing”, its complex and that is what people seem to have missed with all this.

  67. Dorlormin–

    The world is not a good capitalist vs an evil “left wing”, its complex and that is what people seem to have missed with all this.

    Why do you think anyone missed this? I am mystified why you immediately took my post as a slam against communism (see comment 2), a rant against safety regulations or think it’s pitting “good capitalist vs an evil “left wing”’. It’s not.

    Daniel Hanninger– who I cited because I learned something from his article– noticed that many of the technologies that were necessary for the rescue were developed by private companies and the effort to develop them was to make money. That is: Some good things come of capitalism and in this case it contributed to the rescue. That’s the sum total of the capitalist angle.

    I learned of these technologies, and, if you read my closure, you will see I applauded people. Specifically, I wrote:

    Anyway, three cheers for the miners, everyone who worked to get them out, and everyone who developed or donated life saving technologies needed to get the guys out safe and sound!

    These are all people. Those who donated life saving technology were generous (note word in the title.) That many had the means to be generous is, whether you like it or not, related to capitalism. I applaud them and am happy they had the means and inclination to help.

    Noticing this, and applauding something I think good, is not the same as suggesting communism or communists are evil.

  68. lucia Why do you think anyone missed this? I am mystified why you immediately took my post as a slam against communism (see comment 2),
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    Not really I just took it as a very one sided view of this whole incident. Your post said capitalism rescued these miners, it missed how the same forces had been at play when the owners had continued to operate an unsafe mine.

    These are all people. Those who donated life saving technology were generous

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    Peope were fantastic.

    that many had the means to be generous is, whether you like it or not, related to capitalism.
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    and yet many people who acted for the miners did not have the means due to capitalism.
    is not the same as suggesting communism or communists are evil.
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    Communists were not really my concern I only really used in in my first post as sarcasm.

    My two points were that capitalism was not some unblemished force for good in all this and that Chile’s history was a touch incomplete noticing only that it had not had a left wing dictator.

  69. I did not say that Chile never had any dictators, of any persuasion. I said that they are not controlled (presently) by the kind of left wing loons that dominate the majority of Latin American politics.

  70. Andrew_FL (Comment#54437) October 15th, 2010 at 4:47 pm
    I did not say that Chile never had any dictators, of any persuasion. I said that they are not controlled (presently) by the kind of left wing loons that dominate the majority of Latin American politics.
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    Oh so when you said “Chile has done rather well on a continent where leftist dictatorships ” you were admiting that rightist dicators and the people they kill are irrelevant and even to celebrated.
    And as for dominating South American politics I take it you are excluding Argentina and Brazil (small countries) for you view of South America.

  71. While in general agreement with dorlomin on this issue, I don’t think the miners really gave a rats ar$e whether or not the drill bit came from a private company in Berlin, PA or forged by the Cuban metalworkers cooperative. They got out and that is wonderful news.

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