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How I got Sears to Send Me Warranty Parts! (I hope!)

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Some of you have been following the comments on My Kenmore Sears Piece of Crap Dishwasher whose top rack was sitting in the floor of my office due to two malfunctioning “W10350376 ADJUSTERs” which representatives contacted through 1-800-4-MY-HOME would not replace under warranty unless I paid Sears labor to have a technician visit my home to “diagnose” the failure and then install the part. I was told (among other things) that if I was unwilling to pay their labor, I could just purchase the part with my own money and install it myself.

I am not a lawyer, but my impression is a warranty that required me to pay Sears labor to get a covered part would violate federal statutes. So, that was unacceptable to me. I embarked on a mission to get these parts from Sears.

But today, I want to explain how I finally obtained the part (I hope), providing background discussion of the numerous unanswered voicemails (~7 or 8), non-replies to emails, constant stream of assurances by @searscares that they would prod my case manager Samantha B. to deal with my case.

How I finally got my part.:

As noted above, on January 6th I spent hours on the phone talking to people at 1-800-4-MY-HOME to no avail. I was given ‘Sears policy’ on filling the warranty– which policy I believe to be at odds with federal laws on warranties. (That said: I’m not a lawyer so I could be wrong.) A reader might think calling that number is “useless”. Advise: However, if you need a part replaced under warranty, I would suggest that you do call any number listed in your warranty first because that way you will be able to report that you followed the directions in the warranty and were unable to get compliance with the terms.

I called another online number: also to no avail. I then wrote a blog post, and also began to Google to find mechanisms to escalate. Twitter was one such mechanism.

Escalation on Twitter is somewhat useful: Complaining on Twitter. Currently an @BrianSozzi is covering the sad state of affairs at @Sears. He has a huge number of followers, and was retweeting various stories. He retweeted some of my tweets including photos of the broken part. (I would advise anyone tweeting about broken parts to post photos of the broken parts on Twitter.)

As a result of tweeting (and possibly @BrianSozzi retweeting ) I managed to come to the attention to @searscares. They don’t really seem to care about much, but they apologize a lot. Also, getting their attention is useful because they will assign you a “case manager”. (Note: they seem to be active during working hours Central Standard Time). @searscares requested my contact information and assigned a case manager. I subsequently received this.

From: Sears Social Media Customer Service
Subject: CASE 2053319:Social Media Email Recap Case Open LUCIA LILJEGREN (SB)
Date: January 6, 2014 3:19:28 PM CST
To: Lucia Liljegren
Reply-To: searscares@customerservice.sears.com

Dear Lucia Liljegren,

Thank you for contacting Sears Holdings Corporation Executive Offices and allowing us the opportunity to address your concern regarding your recent experience. We sincerely apologize for the inconvenience you have experienced and we appreciate the opportunity to assist you.

Please be advised case 2053319 has been opened. I would be more than happy to assist with getting these parts ordered under your manufacture warranty. Can you please provide your phone number or address so I can locate your product within our systems. Once I am able to pull the product and purchase information I can use it to get the parts. If you have any further questions, please feel free to reply to this email or contact us via phone.

Thank you,
Sammantha B.

Social Media Case Manager
Sears Holdings Corporation
Direct line: 888-572-8119
Extension: 21
Main line: 888-995-2139
Email: smsupport@searshc.com
Schedule: Sunday – Thursday 8:30 AM – 5:30 PM (CST)
Out of office Friday and Saturday

I responded hit reply and sent my phone number and email to ‘searscares@customerservice.sears.com’. Later that evening, I re-read, noticed that smsupport@searshc.com was listed in the body of the email, added a heading and sent the information to both smsupport@searshc.com and searscares@customerservice.sears.com. After that there was no further reply from Sammantha B. (However, Sears sent me a questionaire requesting I review Sammantha R. Interpreting that as Sammantha B, I rated her giving quite negative ratings. I took a screenshot and posted that on twitter.)

Between the time I got this email and this morning, I tweeted various issues pertaining to @sears.

Advise:My “social media case manager” appears to have been utterly unresponsive to my desire to discuss my broken dishwasher. I never spoke to her. So, getting this would seem to be useless. But ultimately it is useful as a path to the next step.

  • Phoning the case manager. Email had not worked. I mentioned this on Twitter several times, and @searscares apologized and told me they would look into it. Eventually, they told me that there was some misunderstanding because emails had been sent. They asked for a good phone number: I tweeted that. I then decided that if we were going to use phone, I would phone about hourly. (It is in my interest to have my materials at hand when speaking anyway.) Yesterday, I left approximately 6 voicemails. My casemanager never returned calls: @searscares told me they would prompt her to call. Still no calls. I called this morning. (Twice I think).

    Frankly, after getting no emails (do to the ‘misunderstanding’), I was not surprised to get no answer and no return calls. So, what was the purpose of the calls? The purpose is to be able to report that I tried to follow Sears’s method of resolving the dispute..

  • This morning, I decided to deem my case “an emergency” and called the number Sear suggest one calls in “an emergency”. That number is 1-800-573-8431. I ended up making two calls to this number. The first was a failure. The second resulted in success.

    Call 1: I was put through to “Veronica W.”. My notes say that was around 9:47 am my time. I asked if I could record. She told me I could not. I pointed out to her that I has listened to their recording saying they may record, she said that was for quality assurance purposes. I asked if I can obtain the recording; the answer is no. I also learned Veronica W. is in the “Blue Ribbon Executive Office.” My impression based on Veronica’s vocal patterns is she was not pleased with my asking these things but she remained polite and professional. She asked for my case number; I gave her the case number. She told me that the file said the case manager was given guidance to phone me today. I asked when that might be; Veronica did not know. She offered to find out if Samantha was in. My phonecall was forwarded to “Roshlyn (?)” whose voice mail picked up. I didn’t leave a message. The phone eventually hung up on me. (I thought it might go back to Veronica.)

    Call 2: I decided to call 1-800-573-8431 again! ( It was approximately 9:54 am) This time, I got Adam T. I put him through the same questions initial questions (“Can I record? Last name? and so on.) He seemed more at ease. During the course of discussing he verified home address, noted that their file contained Jim’s old comcast email. He updated that. He also mentioned that I had a “blah,blah case number” not a “Blue Ribbon Case Number”. I asked if I needed both, and then explained my general issue of needing parts– also explaining that I had left numerous voice mails at my assigned case managers voice mail with no return calls.

    He was guiding the conversation (which was fine), and when he said something to the effect that I didn’t have an extended warranty, I asked if he had a copy of the warranty that came along with my machine’s sale, as that is what applies. (Note: I think it is important to get the Sears people to obtain the controlling documents. That is the warranty you have not the irrelevant warranty you did not buy which previous reps wished to discuss, and which Adam did begin to allude to.)

    Adam T was both willing and able to locate a copy of my warranty which does exist whether or not I bought an extended warranty). (Likely, he had access to a .pdf file.)

    Once Adam T had located the active warranty, I asked Adam to read the lower right text and note that the warranty is extended by “Sears Brand Management Corporation” and he agreed. I had some discussion to try to establish that he was representing that entity. (I didn’t want to waste time talking to someone who believed this language didn’t bind their company.) I sensed some puzzlement that I was belaboring this point, then I told him that at least one previous Sears representative had suggested that my warranty was a “manufacturers” warranty, and that as a “manufacturer” my warranty filled by “the manufacturer” who is not Sears. (FWIW: Whirlpool actually made the item. The previous– not Adam– One Sears rep gave me this Whirlpool customer service number: 1-866-698-2538 to get satisfaction from “the manufacturer”. Another went into a big song and dance about “Kenmore” being owned by “Sears” with some confusion theory about how that somehow meant I had to pay labor. It was head spinning. But Adam T. didn’t do any of this silly stuff.))

    After Adam and I quickly agreed Sears is the party that warrants the item, I turned his attention to the first bullet:

    “For two years from the date of purchase, any part of the dishwasher that fails due to defective materials or workmanship will be replaced free of charge. After the first year from purchase date, the customer assumes any labor costs associated with replacement of these parts.”

    I read the first sentence to him. I told him my parts had failed due to defective materials. He read the second sentence: I told him I did not need or want any labor. I just wanted replacements for the two parts that had failed.

    Because of previous experience, I was “prepared” for the mantra other reps had repeated, and was going to point out that when the warranty does not cover any part of labor, Federal Law prohibits the warrantor (Sears) from imposing the warrantor’s choice of “labor” on the warrantee (me). That is: Sears cannot insist that I hire them to perform any labor. For those interested, the

    Consumer protection act reads

    (b) Under a limited warranty that provides only for replacement of defective parts and no portion of labor charges, section 102(c) prohibits a condition that the consumer use only service (labor) identified by the warrantor to install the replacement parts. A warrantor or his designated representative may not provide parts under the warranty in a manner which impedes or precludes the choice by the consumer of the person or business to perform necessary labor to install such parts.

    See http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/16/700.10

    However, I didn’t need to pull out Chapter and verse. The moment I told Adam T. that I only wanted the parts and no labor, he pretty much said he’d send them!!! Whooo hooo!!!

    After that, Adam put me on hold while filling the order. He returned in about 1 minute, verified my address. An email telling me the order was filled arrived in my box– it ways payment
    Payment Type
    STORE CHARGE – 9917

    Which I interpret as Sears is paying it. And I expect the parts are expected to arrive “Monday, January 20, 2014”, which is maybe a bit slow. But — provided they arrive– I can deal with that. Adam will also be phoning to verify.

    Adam T also told me he is my new case manager, gave me a new case number phone number and extension. I’ll update you all when the parts arrive. 🙂

    • End of Call 2: the parts are coming!!! What I finally did finally worked. Finally.

    However, here is what I will do when dealing with appliance manufacturers in the future (I did some of these things. Did not do others.)

    1. Read your warranty. If it covers parts but not labor, be generally aware of laws governing warranties. In particular be armed with the link to the Consumer Protection Act above. (There are a few other useful bits.)
    2. Know what I want in advance. I knew I wanted replacement parts with no labor charges and that I was willing to do all the labor myself. Do contact the number listed in the warranty that comes with the appliance. Listen, write down names. (I didn’t on the first try. I will ask if I can record. If I can’t record, take notes, I’ll the reps pause to give me time to take notes. If they seem impatient about the delay, I’ll remember to tell them I am not allowed to record. ) I will not assume what their interpretation of the warranty is the correct legal interpretation of the warranty language. It’s fair to tell the rep they are mistaken about the interpretation of the language. Do not settle for an inadequate resolution (like, for example getting “discount” on labor with labor knocked down from ~$90 to ~$30 when the warrantor is not permitted to charge you for labor at all.)
    3. If I cannot get a fair-to-you resolution, ask whether I can be assigned a “case number” at “headquarters” or something similar. Possibly I would have gotten a case number sooner if I’d aske the reps at 1-800-4-MY-HOME. This may not work. On the 6th, I asked the representative at the Customer Escalation Center to connect me with someone higher up. This request was repeatedly turned down. ( With Sears, it seems one can get a “social media case number” or a “blue ribbon” case number.)
    4. Note: In parallel with the above, I start to tweet mentioning that my appliance broke. (If I get resolution quickly, I’ll tweet that too and applaud the warranty people at the relevant company.)

      I will search for appliance manufacturers twitter handle(s). (Sears has many. @searscares, @sears. ) Find out if anyone high profile is conveniently tweeting about that company and add them to some of the tweets. ( @BrianSozzi , a financial analyst, was tweeting while I was.) He retweeted– he especially like images of broken parts and the screenshot .png showing my rating of the “Customer Care Manager”.

      If I notice the company is responding to other people’s comments but not mine, I will reply to other people’s commments. (Example:’I asked for ‘X’ and didn’t get it.’ or ‘My dishwasher is broken too!’ are useful for getting attention.)

      I’ll Tweet a lot. I know I bored the pants off my followers. But unlike Facebook or my personal blog, Twitter is very public. It is quite suited to getting the attention of a company. Besides maximizing the chance my complaint would be seen by the Sears, those tweets can other consumers. (There’s a guy in Oak Park who says he’s replaced about 5 of these parts. I need to email him and tell him I got some under warranty.)

    5. After I show I am willing to follow the companies suggestions to contact people of their choice, I will use whatever information the company provides to contact as many different folks as you can. This time after leaving numerous voicemails at my “case managers” phone, I decided to escalate my issue to “emergency” status and called the “emergency” number provided on Sear’s answering machine. That ultimately worked.
    6. If all this doesn’t work in some future case and I run out of options, I will file a complaint at the FTC.

      I have to say: given Sears’s behavior at 1-800-4-MY-HOME it may be that I should file a complaint anyway– while mentioning that I did ultimately get my parts. But I think for now, I’m fine. I am going to tell the guy in Oak Park that I got parts. Maybe he can get some parts. Or if he can’t get them, maybe he can complain to the FTC! 🙂

    I think next time, armed with knowledge of some laws, and willing to escalate sooner, I will be able to get compliance in less time. With any luck, some readers who may have trouble in the future will find this and recognize that they can get their part without paying for labor and that getting it is not a “gift”: it is what the warranty requires of the warrantor.

    Is this all sort of obnoxious? Yes. It is. But a warranty is a warranty and companies should comply with their own warranties. I’ll let you know when the parts arrive!

    80 thoughts on “How I got Sears to Send Me Warranty Parts! (I hope!)”

    1. That’s a great play-by-play. I saved it, including the CPA citations, to Evernote for future use. Congratulations on persevering until they had to honor the warranty.

    3. Derek–
      I”m going to keep comments on this post open so that “future” consumers who might confront the various arguments I was presented by the first set of Sears reps can post questions. (I kept them open the Chinese scam post too.)

      I got a huge array: There was the “manufacturers warranty” is “whirlpool”. The main one was either to say that I had to hire Sears labor (which would make the warranty illegal– I think) or to push the discussion toward what an extended warranty does cover. The former is BS: I don’t have to hire Sears labor. The latter is just changing the subject. It doesn’t matter what a warranty I don’t have might cover. What matters is what the warranty I do have covers.

    4. Well done. I don’t know if companies purposely hire obnoxious people to “help” customers or they end up that way due to the customers’ personalities. Don’t you love dealing with wannabe prison guards? Think Count of Monte Cristo.

      BTW, there was a news item recently about someone who complained on the internet about a product and was then sent a huge bill because of some fine print stating that it was not allowed to do that. I couldn’t find it again. I think it was in the US and the bill was for about $3000 and I don’t remember if there was any resolution.

    6. Your ordeal inspired me to call Sears and confirm that the warranty purchased as part of the gift is in force. It is, and the warranty information ahs been (allegedly) updated to show my tel# and local address.
      Sorry you had to escalate like that for a trivial part, but I appareciate greatly your taking the time to inform people of this sort of possible challenge.
      Other than the little wheels failing, how do you like the dishwasher?

    7. hunter

      Other than the little wheels failing, how do you like the dishwasher?

      Mostly, I like it. Like all appliances, there are things I like better or worse. But the main things is: it does clean my dishes well. It is also much quieter than my previous dishwasher. (Had I written a review 2 months after getting the machine, I likely would have highlighted that.)

      I wrote more on the other thread:

      http://rankexploits.com/musings/2014/my-kenmoresearch-piece-of-crap-dishwasher/#comment-122467

      My thoughts are: it’s a machine that people will like when they first buy it. After the wheels come off? Not so much.

      Of course I anticipate future parts will break. These will likely break again. If its more than 2 years from purchase date: I buy them. No argument. I will tell people what I think of the quality, but after the warranty is gone: I buy.

    8. Spellbound,
      I read that way back when. That strategy would only work for a very small company with minimal sales. Possibly a “fake” company that exists only to collect on people writing negative reviews!

      No one the size of Sears could begin to get away with something like that because the story would be way too big!

    9. Lucia, good job and congratulations on your success.

      Today Sears Holding Company shares lost 16% of their value. I have not decided whether that might have been caused by investors reading at your blog or the huge losses Sears incurred in the 4th Quarter.

      I feel good also that I apparently have fixed my refrigerator problem – by reading online and then finding a simpler solution. I also unloaded the refrigerator to the outdoor cold temperatures and my wife cleaned the entire inside of the refrigerator which she has been after me to do for some time.

      Now my printer will not print black text and I have worked on that problem for 2 days. Printers are so inexpensive these days – I think the companies make their money on the ink – that spending that much time on the problem revolves around a retired guy with time to do it and an inherited frugalness beyond some peoples belief. I have one more thing to try and then failing that it is out to the store to purchase a new one knowing I exhausted all avenues of repair.

    10. Kenneth Fritsch,
      I suspect analysts will attribute it to the huge losses in the 4th quarter.

      I am willing to give up on broken things. But this issue…. the technical side of the fix is trivial. You get the part. You snap the old on out. You put the new one in. The difficulty is Sears Warranty.

      I have to admit that to a certain extent the issues driving me were:
      1) The principle that Sears should honor its Warranty. (Heck, I’d respect them more if their rep just said, “Yeah. That’s what the Warranty says. But we don’t honor it.” But they pretend they are honoring it and so on. I really wish I could have recorded the woman on Jan 6. Uh. Mazing.)

      2) Knowing that I can describe the process and reveal the path to getting a part to people who might find this page. I am sure over time some will because lots of people encounter appliance warranty issues. Also: some of the methods here apply equally to other large companies who may practice the same methods. (That is: telling you that you can’t get parts without paying for labor.)

      I”m going to go do a round on the Nordic track now. Then make spaghetti sauce for dinner. Then wine! (Yes. This will be a celebration of what could be seen either as saving $32 it would have cost me to get parts at Amazon.com or prevailing over the immovable object i.e. Sears Warranty!)

    11. “But the main things is: it does clean my dishes well. It is also much quieter than my previous dishwasher. (Had I written a review 2 months after getting the machine, I likely would have highlighted that.)”

      I noticed those qualities also with our dishwasher that we purchased about 4 years ago. It is mid to high range dishwasher but what I noticed was that the parts appear to be very light weight and perhaps not that strong vis a vis breakage. I was afraid that with impatient me involved in its operation I might force and break some parts. I even thought I had done that in opening some compartments, but I see now that the closing fixtures are made to pop open and close. Like automobiles I think engineering has done a lot to remove material costs in these products. I also think that sometimes we have to deal with engineering limits that are discovered in the field and not the laboratory.

      Back in the day part of my job in a manufacturing company was making sure we tested new products and parts to have long lives in the field and do it in a timely fashion. This meant properly designing and interpreting accelerated and stressed tests. It was most challenging and rewarding.

    12. Kenneth,
      The problem with this particular part is the 4 wheels do have to bear the weight of the upper rack, and that includes when loaded. I don’t put extremely heavy things in there. But I do load things like mugs, wine glasses and so on.

      That said, I’m not entirely sure weight explains why the part fails the way it fails. Also: I can see that the little spindle or axels or whatever you want to call it has an “I-beam” design in the center– vertical plane, which is good. There are little prongs on either side — in the horizontal plane. It’s those prongs that break. I think their only function is to press sideways and keep the little wheel on. Once they break, the wheels come off. I’m not convinced force down is the problem for those prongs, but I’m not sure what is.

    13. You’ve convinced me that I will never buy an appliance from Sears ever again. What they’ve put you through is outrageous.

    14. Wow.

      I wonder if the folks at Sears might consider your behavior “vexatious”.

      Now where have we heard that word before?

      🙂

    15. lucia,

      When the new parts arrive, look closely at the tabs for any discoloration. Bending plastic that is not designed to bend or bending it beyond its limits will usually result in a color change, generally the bend will be lighter in color than the surrounding plastic, crystallization, I think. That will weaken the part.

      But even then, unless the guides are misaligned or so flimsily mounted so that they put tension on the wheels when the rack is full, I don’t see why the part should fail. With properly designed guides, you should only need the tabs to retain the wheels when the rack is removed from the dishwasher.

    16. DeWitt

      When the new parts arrive, look closely at the tabs for any discoloration.

      I don’t think I’ll be able to inspect that way because the wheel will already be on the little spindle. It’s not easy to pop them on and off– and not normal use to do so. I don’t think it would be fair to pop it on and off and then attribute subsequent damage to normal use.

      I’ll take a photo of what I have tomorrow and show you from several angles. I’ll draw arrows and such like.

    17. In the near future we are going to return to the past and have hand-built and repaired ‘stuff’. The blacksmith/carpenter of old will have a series of 3D printers/formers and will have the patterns of all the parts that wear out.
      Machines will be designed to be printed and repaired.
      Yesterday a friend showed my a 1/4 scale human brain that he printed from an MRI. I can imagine printing a full sized brain in colored gelatin, with plastic vasculature, allowing the residents to practice before they dig in.

    18. Re: lucia (Jan 9 17:32),

      I couldn’t tell from the pictures you posted whether the retaining tab breaks at the bottom or the top or whether you could see the bottom end of the tab, say from the back side, without removing the wheel, which you wouldn’t want to do.

      I also would have thought that one tab would have been sufficient to retain the wheel under normal load.

    19. DeWitt, I’ll take better photos and additional views tomorrow. Side views will help.

      One tab is not enough. One of the ‘spindle/axels’ has 1 tab still on. On the other, two broke off. (Also more photos will help make sure we use the same words for the same things.

    20. Re: lucia (Jan 9 18:00),

      If one tab isn’t enough, then it becomes more likely that the wheel assembly is being put under tension. That’s bad design. The load should be perpendicular to the wheel axle and the retaining clips, tabs, whatever should not be stressed at all. I may take some pictures of the Maytag assembly for comparison.

    22. Sometimes a company just decides to do what is best in both their short-term and their long-term interest.

      I had a 1988 Ford Taurus station wagon that broke two sets of motor mounts while it was still under warranty. From examining the fracture points, the mounts were quite obviously not up to the job.

      Looking at the intervals between breakages, I asked the Ford dealer what they were going to do the next time the mounts broke, which one could predict would occur a year or so after the car’s warranty had expired.

      The response was that a new design for the motor mounts was in the works, and that if the older motor mounts broke again, they would be replaced with the upgraded mounts free of charge.

      Sure enough, the second set of motor mounts broke more or less on schedule, after the warranty had expired, but the Ford dealer replaced them with the newer design free of charge, just as promised. The car went to 150,000 miles while I had it, with no further motor mount problems.

    23. Remind me never to get on your bad side. 😉
      .
      On an hourly basis, I suspect your were not very well compensate, but at least you have provided others with useful information should their Sears appliances break under warranty.

    24. SteveF

      but at least you have provided others with useful information should their Sears appliances break under warranty.

      That was what motivated me. Also: Some of this is transferable to other warranties. Whether all will be able to generalize: Dunno. (That’s the big difficulty. If we could get people to know what is not permitted so they can properly deal with ‘service’ centers, it would be useful. Meanwhile, to some extent, warranty service puts customers in the position of calves to the slaughter!)

    25. I wonder if the law affecting recording of conversations allows the second party to record after the first reveals that it is recording. You might not need the first party’s agreement once this cat is unbagged.

      It seems self-evident that Sears is not the author of this lousy part, but they are the owners of a very high-viscosity warranty claim program.

      It will be interesting to see if Whirlpool ever owns up to this “not-fit-for-purpose” (crummy) part, does a more effective design and makes the new part available to anyone burdened with the present design.

      Without a replacement, owners will forever after need to “favor” the upper tray every time they use the washer. Ugh.

    26. Well, this incident has taught me a valuable Google lesson. Instead of seeing selected ads for things I might actually buy online now all I see are appliance parts. One Google for a drawer adjusted wiped out years of Bass Pro Shop searches.

    27. j ferguson,

      I wonder if the law affecting recording of conversations allows the second party to record after the first reveals that it is recording.

      I’m reading http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=072000050HArt.+14&ActID=1876&ChapterID=53&SeqStart=32750000&SeqEnd=34900000

      Specifically “Sec. 14-3. Exemptions. The following activities shall be exempt from the provisions of this Article:”

      These stick out:

      (i) Recording of a conversation made by or at the request of a person, not a law enforcement officer or agent of a law enforcement officer, who is a party to the conversation, under reasonable suspicion that another party to the conversation is committing, is about to commit, or has committed a criminal offense against the person or a member of his or her immediate household, and there is reason to believe that evidence of the criminal offense may be obtained by the recording;

      The warrantee could have the “theory” that the warrantor is about to violate the consumer protection act and grant oneself permission. I wouldn’t want to hang my hat on that as a defense in court.

      The following is probably what the “service” staff are using and why it’s important to say for “quality control”.

      (j) The use of a telephone monitoring device by either (1) a corporation or other business entity engaged in marketing or opinion research or (2) a corporation or other business entity engaged in telephone solicitation, as defined in this subsection, to record or listen to oral telephone solicitation conversations or marketing or opinion research conversations by an employee of the corporation or other business entity when:
      (i) the monitoring is used for the purpose of service

      quality control of marketing or opinion research or telephone solicitation, the education or training of employees or contractors engaged in marketing or opinion research or telephone solicitation, or internal research related to marketing or opinion research or telephone solicitation; and
      (ii) the monitoring is used with the consent of at

      least one person who is an active party to the marketing or opinion research conversation or telephone solicitation conversation being monitored.
      No communication or conversation or any part, portion, or aspect of the communication or conversation made, acquired, or obtained, directly or indirectly, under this exemption (j), may be, directly or indirectly, furnished to any law enforcement officer, agency, or official for any purpose or used in any inquiry or investigation, or used, directly or indirectly, in any administrative, judicial, or other proceeding, or divulged to any third party.

      Presumably, the Sears is “engaged in marketing”? It continues.

      When recording or listening authorized by this subsection (j) on telephone lines used for marketing or opinion research or telephone solicitation purposes results in recording or listening to a conversation that does not relate to marketing or opinion research or telephone solicitation; the person recording or listening shall, immediately upon determining that the conversation does not relate to marketing or opinion research or telephone solicitation, terminate the recording or listening and destroy any such recording as soon as is practicable.
      Business entities that use a telephone monitoring or telephone recording system pursuant to this exemption (j) shall provide current and prospective employees with notice that the monitoring or recordings may occur during the course of their employment. The notice shall include prominent signage notification within the workplace.
      Business entities that use a telephone monitoring or telephone recording system pursuant to this exemption (j) shall provide their employees or agents with access to personal-only telephone lines which may be pay telephones, that are not subject to telephone monitoring or telephone recording.
      For the purposes of this subsection (j), “telephone solicitation” means a communication through the use of a telephone by live operators:
      (i) soliciting the sale of goods or services;
      (ii) receiving orders for the sale of goods or

      services;
      (iii) assisting in the use of goods or services; or
      (iv) engaging in the solicitation, administration, or

      collection of bank or retail credit accounts.
      For the purposes of this subsection (j), “marketing or opinion research” means a marketing or opinion research interview conducted by a live telephone interviewer engaged by a corporation or other business entity whose principal business is the design, conduct, and analysis of polls and surveys measuring the opinions, attitudes, and responses of respondents toward products and services, or social or political issues, or both;

    28. Ok…. So, what Sears warranty doesn’t seem justified under “marketing or opinion research”. None of the listed activities are Sears “principle business”. They are also not the “principle business” of a warranty service center. That said: They likely represent the announcement that they “may” record as “asking permission” (it isn’t really). The play that announcement before recording and Veronica T said they would stop if you refused to grant permission. So, I suspect their position would be they ‘get permission’ approach– which is what is required in Illinois. (I certainly wouldn’t count on winning any suit that alleges they don’t have my permission. Though some class action lawyers might if there was money in it.

      I don’t see any exemption that says if they record, I automatically get to do so. But their position is certainly asymetric. They systematically record, but won’t grant permission.

      That said: The Blue Ribbon Center (where Veronica and Adam were) is not in Illinois. It’s in Texas. Other centers may be in other states. So, two state laws could interact. I’ll look up Texas.

    29. On to Texas:http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/texas-recording-law

      Texas’s wiretapping law is a “one-party consent” law. Texas makes it a crime to intercept or record any “wire, oral, or electronic communication” unless one party to the conversation consents. Texas Penal Code § 16.02. Therefore, if you operate in Texas, you may record a conversation or phone call if you are a party to the conversation or you get permission from one party to the conversation in advance.That said, if you intend to record conversations involving people located in more than one state, you should play it safe and get the consent of all parties.

      So, if I record Sears staff whose butts are in TEXAS, I would not be violating Texas law. It appears I would not be violating Federal law either (it seems to be 1 party consent. http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/recording-phone-calls-and-conversations ).

      So, when their butts are in TEXAS (and most states) I could only be violating Illinois law by not getting consent. As my butt sits in Illinois, I am both protected and constrained by Illinois law (or at least probably. There seem to be arguments about whose statute prevails. )

    30. dallas

      One Google for a drawer adjusted wiped out years of Bass Pro Shop searches.

      Hilarious! I’m seeing Sears appliance ads a lot too.

    31. Could it be that the “quality control” justification would preclude them from using the recording for anything else?

    32. Customers keeping their cool helps. My wife worked customer service a short while many years ago and still marvels about the abuse she got from frustrated customers. It’s hard to help someone who starts out swearing at you. She told off one guy and hung up on him. He called back and apologized. So dealing politely with even the least helpful CS reps fairs better than blowing up at them.

    33. Wow you are a tiger Lucia. Bravo on staying in the fight until you got results. I suspect fewer than 1 in 10,000 would do that and most would bend over and just schedule a service call or buy the parts themselves. Sears policies and handling of this minor warranty issue are a symptom of their greater overall problems. Somewhere along the way they lost interest in satisfying their customers and exceeding their expectations for customer service. Their future looks quit dim.

    34. j ferguson,
      I don’t know.

      It does appear that if they were to record without permission and justify that with “quality control” in “marketing or opinion research” (exemption j) then they can’t

      No communication or conversation or any part, portion, or aspect of the communication or conversation made, acquired, or obtained, directly or indirectly, under this exemption (j), may be, directly or indirectly, furnished to any law enforcement officer, agency, or official for any purpose or used in any inquiry or investigation, or used, directly or indirectly, in any administrative, judicial, or other proceeding, or divulged to any third party.

      Of course, since they are a ‘party’ with many employees, lots of Sears employees might, potentially, enjoy listening to any entertaining ones over and over. Moreover, possibly the more entertaining ones could be used in “training”? I don’t know. I have no idea what could happen if a recording or recording(s) somehow “fell off a truck” and got disseminated to “the world” (aka ‘the intertubes’ ) without Sears’s authorization or knowledge. Would that be “indirectly …divulged to [a] third party.”

      But that’s pretty hypothetical. Might make a good movie. 🙂

      BTW: I also note that the law blocks these people from disseminating these recordings to third parties. Presumably, those involved in the conversation are either “first” or “second” parties. So, it wouldn’t seem to block them from providing me the recording they made of my conversation with them. (Oddly, if they gave me the recordings, I’m not sure I would be blocked by Il. statute from disseminating it to “third” parties. That said: I wouldn’t want to hang my hat on that defense if someone who gave me the recording subsequently sued. That said: They won’t give it to me anyway. )

      But… odd thought… what if it was a conference call ( warrantor, me, person C). If warrantor records gives to warranty (party 2), party 2 who did not record disseminates, is this the warrantor “indirectly” disseminating the recording of person C!!! Not sexy enough for a movie plot– unless this were to involve a politician doing something nefarious and it involved some sort of major $$ and lots of sex.

      Anyway, all the possible hypothetical and wide range of state laws — especially the 12 states with two party consent– likely motivate Sears’s recorded message telling customers they “might” be recorded. No matter what the law states, I’m sure the fact that customers were informed would be views favorably by a judge.

    35. Gary (Comment #122511)

      I’m sure lots of customers heap abuse. I do find the “telephone tree” itself very annoying. Certainly, I was a bit peeved when I was sent to the Spanish language person– was it on purpose? But I had a few minutes on hold. Based on the music anticipated that the greeting would be in Spanish and my response to “me llamo whoever….” was something like “me llamo lucia. No hablo espanol, but if you speak slowly I may understand.”. She switched to English apologized and I told her I knew it wasn’t her fault but I would prefer to continue in English. ( I think this was person #3 in that call 1 on the 6th.)

      I think I didn’t heap any “abuse”, but I did sense a “tone” of annoyance on the part of some of the service personel. In my case, their annoyance seemed to stem from my
      (1) not accepting their statements as correct interpretations of what the warranty grants me,
      (2) not accepting their decree that things I suggested were “impossible”. (Example of impossible: It is impossible for anyone at Sears to look at an image of a broken part to evaluate if it is broken. It is only “possible” for this be done in my home at my expense. I tried to explain that what she meant might be it violated her employers policy but it is certainly not “impossible”. She would repeat “impossible” and blah…blah…)

      I have to admit: I can’t blame them for being annoyed. They all remained professional. And some of the people on the phone either don’t have the authority to deviate from what they have been taught is proper handling of a warranty claim, and they may believe that what they have been taught is the actual balls-on-truth of what the warranty means. It is annoying to believe you are trying to help someone and that you have done them a ‘favor’ and bending over backwards to give the options beyond what is provided in the warranty and they refuse on the grounds that you should not be charging at all.

      And of course, I wouldn’t be surprised if my voice communicated annoyance because I thought I was right ( and still do) . (Oh. And my phone pick up tends to be loud. My husband has been on conference calls with me and says it comes off loud. No one else has said anything. But we bear this in mind when talking on the phone and try to talk more softly than normal. Can’t say that’s necessarily at the top of my mind during a discussion about my warranty. Note: there is no adjustment for pickup on my handset. )

      I don’t envy people in that job. OTOH: my “casemanager Sammantha B.” was either out sick &etc. or truly deficient.

    36. ivp0,

      I suspect fewer than 1 in 10,000 would do that and most would bend over and just schedule a service call or buy the parts themselves

      Yes. What I wish I could do is figure out how one could educate people so they know to press. If everyone who was refused parts unless they paid for labor tweeted they were turned down and used a hashtag (maybe #warranty_fail ) that might help. But really… how in the world does one organize that? I wouldn’t be surprised if there aren’t at least 50 people a day who don’t get their parts. But it’s easier to get a lot of people tweeting if it affects 500 people all of whom already in contact (e.g. on a cruise, at a conference etc.) than 18250 people/year, none of whom are remotely aware of each other, and each being affected on different days.

    37. Lucia,

      If everyone who was refused parts unless they paid for labor tweeted they were turned down and used a hashtag (maybe #warranty_fail ) that might help.

      That’s interesting. I suspect Sears would react if this were to happen. I think they accommodate people who demonstrate that they are going to be a persistent nuisance or problem (like you did), but count on the probability that most people won’t bother.
      But I don’t really know anything about it, just speculating.

    38. Mark,
      I’m also speculating. That is yet another reason it would be difficult to motivate people. We might be able to do it if we had clever video/musicians who could make a short (< 3 minute) video youtube that was cute enough to go viral. Otherwise…. no.

      One challenge is that not getting a $30 part under warranty isn’t like “United breaks guitars”.

    40. Mark Bofill (on other thread)
      United breaks guitars went viral so fast he had United calling begging him to pull it offering all sorts of stuff!

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Breaks_Guitars

      The YouTube video was posted on July 6, 2009. It amassed 150,000 views within one day, prompting United to contact Carroll saying it hoped to right the wrong.[4] The video garnered over half a million hits by July 9,[6] 5 million by mid-August 2009,[3] 10 million by February 2011, and 13.3 million by September 2013.

      Media reported the story of the song’s instant success and the public relations humiliation for United Airlines.[1][5][7] Attempting to put a positive gloss on the incident and the song, a company spokesman called it “excellent”. Rob Bradford, United’s managing director of customer solutions, telephoned Carroll to apologize for the foul-up and to ask if the carrier could use the video internally for training.[6] United mentioned it hoped to learn from the incident, and to change its customer service policy as a result of the incident.[4]

      Note: He wrote the song 9 months after the incident. But really, very few people can do what Carroll did. He can write songs. He sings well. He has friends in entertainment and skills to time, pace, create props and costumes. It’s not an *expensive* video. But pacing is important if you want something viral.

      Now: I do think this incident caused companies to recognize that customer service and really matter in the sense that dealing with things improperly can result in big PR disasters. But I don’t know if that means they really understand what they need to do. The difficulty is that it is still the case that the overwhelming majority of poor customer service interactions will not result in “United Breaks Guitars” levels of fall out.

      It wouldn’t even if something pretty horrible happened because it’s a combination of outrageous, and entertaining ways to put the story across that make things to viral. Most people are not entertaining!!

    41. ” What they’ve put you through is outrageous.”

      Lucia, can you say with a straight face you did not enjoy the challenge of your ordeal?

      I had an experience two summers ago where the lady next door was complaining about the parkway trees not being trimmed and the lack of response by our city to her phone calls. I told her I would see if I could get some response.

      The first thing I did was put all my queries into emails where they is a record of the conversation. I sent it to the head of forestry department and a couple of city council members. I asked questions like who would be liable if the hanging and dead tree limbs fell on a pedestrian in the walk and I ask for the criteria they used to determine the priority of which blocks got their trees trimmed and further if I could see a record the order of tree trimming and rationale.

      A couple of days later a nice man from the forestry department showed up at my door and said he could provide some of the information I requested but that it was mainly hand written. He told me that if our blocks were trimmed next week would I still need the information. I had made my initial pitch as a suggestion that it was a matter of good government to document what I requested and thus if I agreed it would appear as though I was kind of blackmailing him. I told him that I would not request the information in writing but that I would be checking up on their practice in a few months.

      I told him to go next door and tell the lady there what he was going to do. You now have two satisfied people as the lady thinks for sure the job got done by her urging.

      The irony of it all is that nearly all the parkway trees are green ash and will all be removed in the next 5 – 10 years due to the green ash borer infestation.

    42. Here is a secret tactic I used against Logitech (and I invented it, I think). Maybe others have done the same.

      NEVER.HANG.UP.

      I lost the little Logitech mouse wireless dongle. They refused to send me another one, or even sell me one. They said I had to purchase another mouse.

      I escalated to the “manager” and he also refused. A momentary inspiration, I told him I was not getting off the phone until he agreed to send me one.

      He said “fine”, he would wait.

      Now apparently they have a policy of never hanging up on a customer.

      So I sat there and worked for about ten minutes with him on the speakerphone, and would have waited hours. He eventually came back on and agreed to send the part.

      YMMV.

    43. And another thing I learned…

      Don’t waste time with people who are not authorized, or do not have the power, to solve your problem.

      After the first refusal to immediately resolve your issue, ask whether they can actually do it if they were so inclined. If not, ask to be forwarded to someone who has that authority.

      Basic stuff really, but you have to ask yourself “how much is my time worth?”. They win by wearing you down and delaying. Lucia probably could have bought a brand new dishwasher if she devoted the time she did to more fruitful paying tasks…
      Sometimes it is the point of the whole thing, as it was here. I appreciate the knowledge she has delivered.

    44. Kenneth

      Lucia, can you say with a straight face you did not enjoy the challenge of your ordeal?

      If one has time (which I do) once embarked on the quest to get part, there is a degree of enjoyment to things like:
      1) Reading @searscares tweeting to tell me there has been some misunderstanding because emails have been sent. Asking for a good phone number.
      2) Posting the number.
      3) Then phoning the person is somehow “unable” to get email through to me every hour, leaving a voice mail and
      4) Tweeting that I was unable to get through.

      Obviously, under the circumstances, I preferred this (that is: found it more enjoyable) to doing as Searscustomer service suggested which was either
      a) buy the parts myself and install them myself or
      b) pay their labor so that they could get me “free” parts.

      In many senses, my problem is a “first world problem”– though not of the most extreme sort. I’m sure thirdworlders also have trouble with others not living up to their end of the deal. (http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/first-world-problems )

    45. lucia (Comment #122521)
      January 10th, 2014 at 10:03 am

      I had never seen that Broken Guitar video but I can see how it would be effective on many levels. Mainly it makes fun of United while using artistic exaggeration to show how a customer views what in this case was probably polite, but unsympathetic, ignoring of a problem that they created and was very real for the person that suffered the problem.

    47. I once traveled to the Middle East with a laboratory instrument, used for doing on-site demonstrations, which was worth about $20,000. It weighed about 85 pounds, including its custom made travel case (to protect it from damage). The case was covered with “Heavy!”, “Fragile, do not drop!”, and “This side up!” labels. As I was sitting in the plane watching the baggage get loaded, one of the baggage handlers picked up the instrument case, made a terrible face when he realized how heavy it was, then literally threw it as far as he could onto the concrete pad, where it landed upside down, making a thud so loud I could hear it inside the plane. He then called over another handler, and together they picked it up and with a “1, 2, 3, heave” motion, threw it through the air again onto the conveyor belt feeding luggage to the plane, making another loud thud. It looked to me like they were trying their best to make sure it was damaged.
      .
      The instrument was damaged, with several internal mounts broken or bent.
      .
      When I complained to the the airline about how the instrument had been handled, their reply was basically “though shit… you should never travel with anything valuable; read the fine print on our liability for damaged baggage.” They really didn’t care at all if they damaged your property. I suppose I could have written a song about monkeys masquerading as baggage handlers, but I was too busy….. and YouTube didn’t yet exist. The airline no longer exists; no surprise there.

    48. I suppose I could have written a song about monkeys masquerading as baggage handlers, but I was too busy…..

      Yep. The thing is: “United Breaks Guitars” was made possible because it involved the perfect storm of poor service. The service was horrible. And it involved an item most consumers understsand (guitar). They also understand why a musician would check it in baggage (needs it on gig in town A, needs it in gig in town B. You can’t just ship ahead.) Consumers also know that the case is distinctive– that’s why someone on the plane knew they were throwing guitars and not something else. And because it was a guitar owned by a songwriter/performer/musician, he could write a song which might be popular even if it didn’t affect united at all. So, he wrote a funny song that nevertheless explained the issue. Of course it went viral.

      These are all special traits one often doesn’t see in a ‘bad service’ issue.

    49. Lucia, Congrats on getting your warranty parts, provided they don’t get lost in the mail, which is what happened to a couple of our packages this xmas season. I guess I am one of the “50-100” people per day that just don’t fight the fight that you did. I’ve only owned my dishwasher about a year and a half so I could of saved $30. I don’t think I could of fought the battle you did for $30, maybe for $300 or $3000, but I am glad you did. It really is the principal of the thing that matters. So thanks!; for all of us who may have to fight that battle some day. Now I want you to take on the US Postal Service. Or maybe Mike Mann and gang would be easier.

    50. Lucia,
      I got a kick out of the unexplained modification to your tree.

      I worked for the Chicago Department of Development and Planning for a short period in the late ’60s. One day two policemen appeared and asked to be directed to the desk of one of my colleagues. They were so directed. Very soon, they left with colleague in handcuffs.

      The story was that he had driven a garbage truck for the City while in college. When he was learning the ropes, he had failed to navigate a narrow T-intersection of two alleys and had pushed over an elderly masonry garage, which fortunately did not contain a car, or much else of value. He and his associates were perplexed as to how to deal with this, but decided that cleaning up the mess would be better in the long run so the three of them loaded all of the masonry into the truck, swept the remaining slab and departed.

      It took the police three years to figure out how the garage had disappeared and who had done it. It could also have been that the owner knew full well how and by whom it had been done and had needed three years to convince the cops of what had been done.

      As it turned out, my colleague was well-connected (how else would he have gotten a summer job driving a garbage truck) and got off with a stern admonition not to steal any more garages.

    51. j ferguson,
      That tree officially belonged to the village because the parkway. And it had broken on its own. It was just amazing how quickly the came out after it broke in half. My neighbor evidently called them–and they just came out.

      The village also later:

      1) called me to ask me my preference of tree to be planted after removing the split in half tree. The village arborist orders some in spring and some in fall. So you can pick from a list of what he has. He apologized profusely that since ‘my’ tree (which really is their tree but is in front of my house) had broken in 1/2 in the summer, I could only chose from about 5 species. Had it broken in the winter, I evidently would have had many to chose from.

      2) The village arborist organized the effort to remove the standing half of the tree and did so promptly.

      3) Alerted us that they would remove the stump and kept apologizing that this entirely free- to- us removal of stump on the parkway that officially belongs to them (but we mow) was taking longer than they’d planned. (They had to rent the stump remover. The arborist is a bit grumpy about this because he’s like to get rid of the stumps ASAP, but they cost some enormous amount of money, and the village would rather spend on something else. So, if “your” tree dies, you might have to wait as much as 3 months to get the stump ground– for free. Oh the humanity!!)

      There is only one guy in the neighbor hood I know who dislikes the village tree handling. That particular guy is a very, very avid gardener and would like to plant a tree of his choice. That’s not allowed. The village offers many choices, then they take care of them. They do a very good job (and the reason you can’t pick your own is they might not do well on a parkway, and the village wants to have trees that are easy to care for etc. The guy who wanted his own tree only groused a little. The problem is he didn’t look up the policy first. So he had to move his tree.)

      Lisle is very good with trees. The town’s “nick name” is “The Arboretum Village” (see http://www.villageoflisle.org/home/index.asp )

      They are also good with snow removal and garbage pick up. Also, their 4th of July celebrations are great. Oh. And the cops are friendly. (And some are even kind of cute!) Seriously.

    52. Just out of curiosity, I followed the part# you gave to the Sears parts-direct catalog. I now receive adverts for the same parts when I visit several sites, including Bishop Hill. FWIW, I gave him a click or two. 🙂

    53. Lucia,
      Isn’t Morton’s tree collection nearby?

      It must have amazed you to find yourself living in a municipality which took its trees so seriously. That is a great story.

    54. j ferguson,
      The “Morton Arboretum” (aka Morton’s tree collection) is located at:

      4100 Illinois Route 53, Lisle, IL 60532
      (630) 968-0074
      http://www.mortonarb.org/

      It’s splendid.

      I don’t know if most towns have an official arborist. But ours is very motivated. I met him– quite nice.

    55. lucia,

      I’ve emailed pictures of the upper rack mounting mechanism of my Maytag dishwasher. It’s a much better design, IMO.

      Did the rack on the Kenmore roll freely before it broke?

    56. lucia (Comment #122548)

      “In many senses, my problem is a “first world problem”– though not of the most extreme sort. I’m sure thirdworlders also have trouble with others not living up to their end of the deal.”

      My point is that it is not the problem or how some might want to categorize it and it is not even the extent or seriousness of the problem, but rather the satisfaction of solving the problem.

      When I was working early in my career the satisfaction came more from solving technical problems as a professional and then later the satisfaction changed more to solving (and to attempts to solve) people problems and problems amongst corporations and across cultural differences.

      Since I have been retired the satisfaction comes from an even wider array of problems to be solved. Some of these problems before retirement would have been either ignored or left to others to solve as I thought I had more important job related priorities. What I have found is that with some of these problems I probably was not sufficiently capable of solving them when I was working and/or I did not have the time to thoroughly analyze them as I currently do.

      I even classify my problems as simple tasks or projects and I inform the wife of the classification just to make it official. She is pretty good at humoring my quirks and probably because she is the one providing a goodly number of my tasks and projects.

    59. lucia,

      If there was no binding, then I still don’t see why the tabs should break. They’re not under load. The weight is supported through the axle piece, which is the I-beam with the curved ends. My next hypothesis is that the tabs were damaged during assembly which then gave a point of attack from the high temperature, high alkalinity conditions leading to failure and the tabs falling off rather than breaking under load. But even then, if the mechanism were properly designed, the wheels still wouldn’t fall off. On my Maytag dishwasher, it’s impossible for the wheels to fall off if the retention tabs fail unless the rack is removed, something that can’t happen accidentally.

      Design flaws like this are exactly what one would expect a competent consumer watchdog organization to notice. Obviously, they didn’t and they aren’t.

    60. DeWitt–
      I can’t really collect information until the parts arrive. The wheels do fall off (or at least out of the channel they are supposed to travel is) when the tabs break. The fall off even if you don’t remove the rack. That said: The rack is designed to be removeable by the consumer, so wheels falling off them would still be a problem. But they fell off while the rack was in the machine.

    61. lucia,

      I just went to Sears and looked at a Kenmore Elite on the floor. The rack mounting assembly looked very much like what’s in my Maytag, except the wheels are grooved. There’s a steel guide with a movable plastic retainer on the end to keep the rack from being removed accidentally. The grooved wheels fit inside this guide. The wheel retention tabs look the same as your picture. However, it doesn’t look like there is enough play for the wheels to fall off when assembled. It did look like it would be easy to put the rack back on with one of the wheels not in the guide.

      Is it possible they changed the design since you bought yours?

    62. DeWitt,
      I don’t know if they redesigned. I can assure you that the wheels fall of while the rack is inplace. Did you jiggle the guides at all? On my machine, if you press lightly on the guide are quite jiggly. I’ll have to make a movie of this so you can see.

    63. Now that you mention it, with the rack pulled out, the guides did have a lot of horizontal play. Thus my comment about it being easy to miss the guide with one of the wheels when putting the rack back on. The Maytag guides don’t seem to be that flexible for whatever reason.

      I’m guessing that if you have one wheel on each side still firmly attached, the rack will stay on. It’s not until a third wheel fails that catastrophe ensues.

    65. DeWitt,

      Thus my comment about it being easy to miss the guide with one of the wheels when putting the rack back on. The Maytag guides don’t seem to be that flexible for whatever reason.

      I should add that it is a PITA to take the upper carriage in and out if one needs to do so for some reason.

    66. lucia,

      While looking to see if I could convert my upper rack to an adjustable version (you can buy the left and right adjusters, but the comments say they are missing the actuating levers), I discovered that Whirlpool makes Maytag dishwashers too.

    67. I found the other parts. It would cost me $138 in parts to make the rack adjustable, not including the screws, shipping, etc. Not worth it.

    68. DeWitt–
      Definitely not worth it. I find up/down adjustability of the top rack less important than being able to adjust rows of tines to be “up” vs flat.

    70. RB–
      Brian Sozzi may be correct. They may have. They are large enough that I would anticipate a slow lingering death involving management takeovers, attempts to change direction and so on. Not being a merchant I have no idea whether someone could turn them around. But as a financial analyst, Brian is likely right to indicate that the stock is not a good buy at least with the current management.

      But the poor warranty support on Sears owned store brands like Kenmore and (based on looking at youtube) craftsman brands will be a lingering problem. Also: they sold numerous service plans which– I think– may even apply to non-Sears appliances. If the Sears support on any Sears extended warranty is substandard, that’s going to be a lingering problem for their reputation. On the other hand, supporting the warranties does cost money since they would need to (a) train their customer service people to provide appropriate service, (b) have to make sure the technicians who do work do so properly and promptly and (c) sometimes give refunds, credits, and so on. In principle, they money to support the warranties has already been paid to Sears. But by the same token, if time-to-failure of appliances increased but was disguised by previously bad warranty service, and then warranty service now because good, that could cost for a while. Management would have to admit that upfront. (And to admit upfront, they would need to admit that they previously weren’t very good at servicing warranties!! This is a double edged PR sword.)

      FWIW: It seems Sears is trying to become more “online” and is hoping some sort of Rewards Program (‘ShopYourWay’) is going to make a difference. I’m a bit skeptical about the notion that giving people “points” is going to make a huge difference for Sears. Similar “point like” things have existed a long time. Remember coffee loyalty cards on paper punchcards? While the internet and computerized devices make it easier for people to remain aware of points, and it is fun spend things like points once they become spendable, you still need to want to make the initial purchases that accumulate points.

      Beyond that: there is nothing unique about Sears points system. We have a similar system at Walgreens– where we get prescriptions filled and so on. It’s nice and an incentive not to move prescription to competitors like Osco (near), Target (not so near), Walmart (not so near) and CVS (no idea where). Since we have insurance our price is always the copay price so we aren’t specifically “price” senstive on these purchases. As long as Walgreens gives good service (which they do) the points are an extra bonus relative to competitors. These will tend to make us be reluctant to get our prescriptions elsewhere.

      Note: Walgreens good customer service benefits them directly and indirectly. They watch out for refills and remind the customer. This is both (a) pleasing to the customer and (b) makes refilling at Walgreens a ‘path of least resistance’. But I don’t think Sears can really benefit themselves this way.

      Although, maybe a clever merchant can figure out ways to make the points system be a splendid benefit for Sears given their product mix. It’s just not obvious to me how they can do it.

    71. I suspect the crisis at Sears is not unique. Lots of old-line retailers (Macy’s, JC Penney’s, etc) face many of the same problems. They are being beaten on price by lower cost competitors like Walmart, and being beaten in individual sectors by specialty stores. They are also losing business to on-line retailers who have lower ‘brick-and-mortar’ investment and lower labor and distribution cost. (I have often heard that department stores have become nothing more that free demonstration sites for on-line retailers; look at the product at the department store, then buy on line for much less.)
      .
      The question that management at Sears and other retailers need to be asking themselves is: “What value do we give to the customer, relative to our competitors, which justifies our higher prices?” At present, I think a fair answer is: “Not much of anything.” I don’t see that changing, so they are probably toast when the money runs out. I hope I am wrong, and there is some way these companies can restructure, change their business model, and survive, but I doubt that is the case.

    72. SteveF

      (I have often heard that department stores have become nothing more that free demonstration sites for on-line retailers; look at the product at the department store, then buy on line for much less.)

      This is likely especially the case for electronics, housewares and so on. Televisions have to be killer. You can check out a television at a store to see the display. Then you can read real customer reviews at Amazon.com. This matters for many smaller appliances (espresso machine? Juicer? Blender? ) or kitchen items. There are enough reviews to get an idea about the strengths and weaknesses of an item. ( I always read the negative reviews to see precisely what they didn’t like. Sometimes it’s something I don’t care about. Sometimes I do care. Heck, sometimes the thing the reviewer did not like is a feature I prefer! )

      In fact: the fact that Amazon has decent customer reviews means that I often go there to check out reviews of many items I might buy locally. If the local dealer doesn’t have a better deal than Amazon, I buy at Amazon.

      Amazon is superb at delivery. I know some people who ordered at midnight on the Dec 22 were disappointed when things didn’t arrive by the 24th. But I read group who did a study found something like 70% of things did arrive by the 24th. To my mind, that is nothing short of amazing.

      I have no idea what Sears is going to do going forward. But from complaints I’ve read on twitter:
      1) If they are going to sell heavy bulky appliances, they need to improve delivery and installation.
      2) If they are going to sell functional work-horse appliances or tool, They need to improve customer service. Their reputation is going to take a huge hit on appliances if lots of people and their relatives have bad experiences with furnaces, hot water heaters, dishwashers, snowblowers etc.

      It used to be that if you bought at Sears, you could count on initial delivery and installation going well and pretty decent service when something breaks. Based on griping, it appears that store managers have no pull even for initial delivery and installation as that may have all been subcontracted out. (I’m not sure about this– but it reads a bit this way.)

    73. I actually bought a TV at Sears after an online TigerDirect purchase came broken (unbelievably poor straight out of bulk shipment packaging) – with assorted deals/points it worked out pretty well, but it just happened to be one isolated deal from Sears. Amazon prime now has 20 million members, now if you count each as representing one household, that is an impressive number of shoppers paying for regular Amazon use. On the other hand, Jeff Bezos has managed to convince investors that the poor earnings from Amazon will translate into something better down the line, so it remains to be seen for how long investors will be forgiving of Amazon’s seemingly astronomical valuations. Perhaps, some adjustments to their business model forthcoming too..

    74. lucia,

      Best Buy, Lowes and Home Depot sell appliances too. Best Buy may be in financial difficulty. We’ve purchased lots of stuff from Lowes in the last year or two and have been highly satisfied with the delivery and installation. I have no experience with their warranty fulfillment, though.

    75. One of the nice things about Sears was to be able to find and buy parts online for almost any tool or appliance they had ever made. Probably not enough to help!

    76. wildly O/T, but ….

      this note is being written on s 20 year old SparcStation 10 running SunOS 4.1.3 (also 20 years old).

      browser is netscape 4.6.1 (circa 200) which doesn’t seem to be able to handle a lot of the current javascript but does work well with your site.

      Nice going and thanks Lucia.

    77. I have been a loyal, avid Sears shopper for my entire life. When I need a major appliance, washer, dryer, garage door opener, tools, compressor you name I go to Sears. I have never had any issues with Sears until yesterday. My PowerMiser Hot Water tank went and I called Sears to discuss my warranty. I spoke with Guillermo, Employee ID 401793 and he verified that my Hot Water Heater was still under warranty until 2/20/2017 so he assured me it will be either fixed or replaced at no charge but I was responsible only for installation. However Sears policy is they would need to send out a technician first to verify that the tank was indeed leaking. I was told the technician would arrive 1-5 that same day 6/30/2015.
      So I wait and technician from A&E Services, his name is Angel shows up just before 5. The tech does not even greet me, he exits his vehicle and announces, “look this unit is not covered by a warranty.“ So I immediately call Sears again, I hand the phone to technician and he speaks with Sears rep and she clearly states that this unit is still under warranty, it is covered. So the Sears rep asks technician to verify my unit, he goes down stairs, inspects the unit and sees it is leaking from the bottom and declares it is bad and needs to be replaced and if it was under warranty it would be replaced free of charge but I was responsible for installation. Sears rep says it is under warranty and it is covered so Sears rep asks for model number and there is discrepancy based on info in Sears computer system (model #) and my unit. It is now apparent, at the time of my purchase the Sears stock boy loaded the wrong unit. I paid for and should have received a PowerMiser12 but I was given a PowerMiser 9. This was determined by Sears rep based on model number they have in their system, but she says it is covered based on warranty expires 2/20/2017. The technician is still complaining that it is not under warranty. Then technician claims they were cut off, and he has to go. I said no wait I am calling back, he enters his vehicle, I am waiting for connection and he says I cannot wait I am leaving.
      I finally get through and ask for manager, I speak with Katrina, and she apologizes and assures me we will resolve this. She states, I see your warranty expires 2/20/2017 so that is now the third Sears representative that has confirmed my warranty expires on 2/20/2017 (plus the technician from A&E also received confirmation that Sears records also indicated warranty was valid until 2/20/2017). So Katrina is assuring me this will be resolved, she is very helpful, she takes time to research this, she pulls out manual to check on manual and agrees it is covered. But she now says, “I will have to send out another technician though.” Now I am confused! Why is another technician needed? Angel from A&E Services was just here and he verified the unit needs to be replaced. Katrina assures me do not worry, I will make clear notes to your case, (case number 3488552) and the technician will have a note on his work order that unit is warranted Sears will cover replacement. So she puts me on hold for good 15 minutes and then comes back and says Sorry your unit is not covered. What just happened? I am furious I have several hours on phone so I ask for another supervisor. I am put on hold for another 30 minutes I speak with Claudette who simply says it is not covered, sorry. I then request to speak to someone else, I am transferred to Willis. I am in the customer service field and how you can employ an arrogant, incompetent, cocky employee as Willis is beyond me. He says you want hot water, I will get you hot water, give me your credit card. I say are you kidding me. This unit is under warranty, he says nope, all roads lead to technician, and he just keeps repeating this phrase knowing it is aggravating me and he knows this is upsetting me yet he continues to repeat this phrase, a minimum of a dozen times! I ask him what about the warranty date in your system, he says it is 2/20/2017 but that must be an input error; so here is another Sears employee that verifies the expiration date of warranty is 2/20/2017 but he clearly says, “I am not covered!” He says no, all roads lead to technician and unit you have, not covered, all roads lead to….I am quite upset at this point. I decide I have to speak to someone else because it is clear Willis has no customer service skills and could care less. He offers me a $50 reduction in price, I refuse this after 4 people have told me unit is covered under warranty, relax we will resolve this; it will be replaced but installation is your responsibility.
      So I call back again, I get another individually and explain case all over again and I ask for expiration date in system, suddenly it is not there, my good friend Willis at Sears obviously changed/omitted warranty date in system because next calls it can be located! He should be terminated! I want this resolved and fast before I take additional steps! I also want Willis to reprimanded for removing information out of computer system which has been confirmed by numerous employees; Willis should terminated and he needs to learn some customer service skills and people skills.
      I can be reached at XXX, my case number is 3488552. This unit is still under a valid warranty, as confirmed by numerous employees, warranty department and this needs to be resolved immediately, I need hot water. I am a professional and I am losing money not meeting clients, I do not want to contact an attorney and file a 93A, file rip off reports, contact consumer affairs, local TV station consumer segment, “On your side,” blogs, Better Business Bureau. I did find out on Google I am not the only individual that has had an issue with warranties at Sears. I want Sears to do the right thing and fast and resolve this immediately!

    78. I came across this article while wading through my own encounter with Sears/Kenmore – I have a Kenmore washer with a Limited Lifetime Guarantee on the stainless steel tub, and they refuse to cooperate. Today I even made it to a “Supervisor” by the name of Eban who did nothing other than talk over me the entire time I had him on the phone!

      I’ve spoken with 11 different people, and they all want to push me off to someone else. Frustrating!

    79. They apparently sold off the Craftman brand for $900M, I would consider this a sure sign of them giving up.

    80. They’re also closing more stores. Anyone who buys a major appliance from Sears now is not paying attention. They’re obviously in a death spiral.

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