My sisters and I have discovered my 88 yo mom is violating “stay at home”. Arghhh!!!! (There is nothing we can do about this.)
She heading out to Easter services?
No. Her church is live streaming.
She’s getting together with friends for social dinner.
I see.
I understand the worry. My daughter has decided of her own accord to protect her grandmother from all exposure for the duration. This has caused my mom some mild exasperation I think.
It’s hard.
Well…. I have to admit that my sisters and I all know this is very “Mom”. [Bite tongue to not say more . . . ]
My kids are horrified I still play golf once a week or so. They are going to have to get over it.
Happy Easter.
SteveF,
Yep.
The fact is: she’s 88 yo. If she’d rather go to dinner with her friend, so be it. I just got off the phone with her. I did not give her a hard time. [ Pats self on back. . . ]
Lucia,
Good for you.
I am but a spry 69…. imagine how difficult my kids will find me should I make it to 88. If I do, I’ll still be trying to play golf. 😉
SteveF,
It’s hard….
After all, my sisters and I tried and tried and tried to get Mom to move off the flood plane for freakin’ DECADES. Her POV: things will work out.
.
Then, the place floods. Her POV: See? The angels came in and took care of me. It all worked out.
.
Who were the “Angels”. Her FREAKIN’ daughters! She doesn’t really even thank us. Instead, her view is…. SEEEE? She’s proven right. Things worked out. (And honestly, she seems to think WE are supposed to acknowledge that she was right and there was never anything to worry about.)
.
Well, yeah. The “angels…” My sister, Patricia took TWO FREAKIN WEEK’s off work. I was in Norway with mom, pestering ad pestering and pestering her to get her on the phone with the insurance company because she refused to put anyone on paperwork before…. If I hadn’t been there with a mobile phone (which mom refuses to learn how to use) Patricia would have been dead in the water.
.
So.. oy!!
.
This is a Mom who prioritized HER worrying. If anything worried her, that was a reason to forbid anything. (Not uncommon I’ll admit.) But she absolutely doesn’t think our worrying matters. And absolutely doesn’t even notice that things *actually went wrong* and we fished her out of it all…
.
Sigh….
.
She’ll probably be fine. But oy!!!
People are crediting the extreme shutdown measure for the fact that we seem to be turning the corner with respect to the Wuhan virus. I have complained that the connection can not be made without a priori predictions. Well, now we have some. Minnesota and Wisconsin have done the usual crackdown, while the neighboring states of Iowa, South Dakota and North Dakota have been on the other extreme, with very few restrictions.
First column below is the state, then the population in millions, the IHME model prediction through Aug. 4 (as of Apr. 10), predicted deaths per hundred thousand population, actual deaths through Apr. 12, an the ratio of predicted to actual. For reference, the U.S. is predicted to have 19 deaths/100K, 2.8 times the present total.
state pop model /100K actual ratio
MN 5.6 442 7.9 70 6.3
WI 5.8 357 6.2 144 2.5
IA 3.2 743 23 41 18
ND 0.8 369 46 8 46
SD 0.9 356 40 6 59
That is quite a stark difference, apparently due to the fact that the model assumes that current policies will stay in place through the end of May.
It will be interesting to compare to what actually happens.
Who were the “Angelsâ€. Her FREAKIN’ daughters!
Aww. That’s sort of sweet. I get it though that it’s probably a tough and thankless job, being an angel. 🙂
mark,
Well… yeah. It would be nice if we could get her to follow ANY advice!!! It would be nice to get her off the flood plane….
Mike M,
The modeler’s relationship with the public is much like the border collie’s relationship with sheep….. scare the bajesus out of them to get them to do what you want.
,
No, the death rates by August are not going to be as high as the models predict at present (never mind their absolutely outlandish predictions from just two weeks ago!). It will be interesting to see if anyone in the MSM later says: “But you said there would be XXXXX deaths in my state, and there were nothing like that!”
Since your mom is 88, the chance of another flood you and your sisters have to take care of during her remaining years is probably small.
SteveF,
Perhaps…. But I’m not entirely sure of that. She’s had seepage into the basement since the flood. Just not a flood. We’d really like her to move!
.
It’s not going to happen voluntarily.
lucia (Comment #182693)
April 12th, 2020 at 4:47 pm
Lucia, your mother sounds like my father. It was all very frustrating at the time but now the siblings joke about it. He was always the master of his domain but towards the end I had the reverse the son to father relationship. I would tell him what he should be doing and I told him like he used to tell me except I would explain in more detail why than he figured he had to do for me. He resisted but he also starting asking for advice on matters and attempt to disguise the asking part in order for him I suppose to still feel independent. As I get older I certainly better understand the independent part.
Good luck with your mom. As long as you continue to communicate some of your advice is bound to get eventually through. For some people it is more difficult for them to tell people they appreciate their efforts and concerns but that does not mean they do not appreciate or unfortunately that they will follow their advice.
Honestly, I’m not telling her to not have dinner with her friends. *Probably* her friend doesn’t get out much, and it’s fine.
.
I do wish we had succeeded in persuading her to leave the 4 bedroom two story house. She should have done and downsized into a single story location that was not on the flood plain when she and Dad divorced. That would have made sense, and in hindsight gotten her the best price! Now she has mobility issues blah… blah… She still won’t move.
.
I could go on, but really there isn’t much point. The main point: she’s an older adult. She is still competent enough to havea right to make her decisions. It would be nice if she would be more realistic about living on a flood plain or not exposing herself to Covid-19. Ain’t gonna happen.
.
Eventually, most children go through this.
lucia (Comment #182707)
April 13th, 2020 at 7:39 am
Looks like we might end up eating a lot of beans…
That’s both surprising and frightening. Having worked in food processing (cannery, bakery, frozen foods), I know social distancing on the job is very difficult if not impossible for many workers due to the nature of their jobs, but this is true for manufacturing in general. Nevertheless , I can’t recall reports of any other factory shutting down because so much of it’s workforce was infected with Covid-19. So why such a large proportion of this particular manufacturing facility’s workforce became infected with Covid-19 is puzzling . A few sick workers could be expected, but enough to shut down the plant is shocking. I hope it’s just an anomaly.
Smithfield’s shut down was caused by Covid-19 , not by the government imposing restrictions to control the spread of this virus. It is a reminder that even without those restrictions our economy would have been damaged by worker sickness (reduced output) and consumer fear (reduced demand). How much economic damage would have occurred anyway (without the restrictions) will be difficult to estimate with much certainty. Perhaps Sweden’s experience with their light restriction policy will give some idea, presuming the country sticks with that policy.
lucia (Comment #182712)
Eventually, most children go through this.
_________
When I couldn’t persuade my aging parents with logic, I resorted to appealing to their fear of displeasing or harming me. I would just say your not doing what I’m asking is making me very unhappy. I am so worried I have trouble sleeping and I think I’m getting an ulcer, etc. You have to be careful to not overdo it or they will see what you are up to. If I had said do what I ask or I will never speak to you again, they would have replied “we will miss you.”
My exaggerations did not always persuade my aging parents, but sometimes worked where logic failed.
OK, this isn’t exaggeration, it’s outright lying. And my wife and I have also resorted to stealing car keys to protect the elderly. We lie and steal to help.
OK_Max
When I couldn’t persuade my aging parents with logic, I resorted to appealing to their fear of displeasing or harming me.
Well… that doesn’t work with my mom. 🙂
.
lucia (Comment #182776)
April 13th, 2020 at 4:39 pm
OK_Max
When I couldn’t persuade my aging parents with logic, I resorted to appealing to their fear of displeasing or harming me.
Well… that doesn’t work with my mom. 🙂
______
I can see why you are resigned to just trying to tolerate her. There may be some value to exercising and developing tolerance but I can’t think of any right now.
OK_Max,
I do tolerate. It still often go “Arghhh!!!!” when Mom is being Mom again.
I can understand. I sometimes felt the same way when trying to advise my mother(e.g. the frustration of trying to convince her keeping a huge sum of money in here checking account was wasteful).
OK_Max,
Keeping huge sums of money in a checking account is really piddling compared to insisting on a little old lady living on a flood plain and continuuing to do so after she was flooded AND had to rely on her kids to organize everything to get the house back in order.
.
This year, your Mom can probably show you her large cash position put ahead compared to having invested the money in the market.
I wanted my mom to put some of her cash in a money market and CD’s so it would earn interest. Because of her advanced age, I would not have advised her to invest in the stock market. Well, actually 5% to 10% of her cash in a broad-based stock mutual fund would have been OK, but I knew she would have thought that a crazy idea, so I never brought it up.
Yes, the present is a good time to be in cash. If deflation comes, holding cash should be even better.
OK_Max,
With current interest rates, you usually can only get a decent rate on a CD if it’s large, > $100,000, and multi-year. I haven’t bothered to move checking account money into a money market account because the difference in interest rate is inconsequential.
DeWitt Payne (Comment #182917)
OK_Max,
**With current interest rates, you usually can only get a decent rate on a CD if it’s large, > $100,000, and multi-year. I haven’t bothered to move checking account money into a money market account because the difference in interest rate is inconsequential.**
_____
DeWitt, we may have different views on what’s consequential.Yes, short-term interest rates are low and have been for a long time. Still, I don’t regard the 1.9% my MM paid in 2019 as inconsequential. I think a MM is a good place for a cash reserve or to park money temporarily, despite the loss of value to inflation.
I keep little more in my checking account than I need for living expenses. It pays interests too, last year something like 0.0000001%.
If you are keeping tens of thousands in a checking account, like my mom was years ago, you might consider it worthwhile to transfer some to a MM. Because of the times, a Treasury MM might be best.
My sisters and I have discovered my 88 yo mom is violating “stay at home”. Arghhh!!!! (There is nothing we can do about this.)
She heading out to Easter services?
No. Her church is live streaming.
She’s getting together with friends for social dinner.
I see.
I understand the worry. My daughter has decided of her own accord to protect her grandmother from all exposure for the duration. This has caused my mom some mild exasperation I think.
It’s hard.
Well…. I have to admit that my sisters and I all know this is very “Mom”. [Bite tongue to not say more . . . ]
My kids are horrified I still play golf once a week or so. They are going to have to get over it.
Happy Easter.
SteveF,
Yep.
The fact is: she’s 88 yo. If she’d rather go to dinner with her friend, so be it. I just got off the phone with her. I did not give her a hard time. [ Pats self on back. . . ]
Lucia,
Good for you.
I am but a spry 69…. imagine how difficult my kids will find me should I make it to 88. If I do, I’ll still be trying to play golf. 😉
SteveF,
It’s hard….
After all, my sisters and I tried and tried and tried to get Mom to move off the flood plane for freakin’ DECADES. Her POV: things will work out.
.
Then, the place floods. Her POV: See? The angels came in and took care of me. It all worked out.
.
Who were the “Angels”. Her FREAKIN’ daughters! She doesn’t really even thank us. Instead, her view is…. SEEEE? She’s proven right. Things worked out. (And honestly, she seems to think WE are supposed to acknowledge that she was right and there was never anything to worry about.)
.
Well, yeah. The “angels…” My sister, Patricia took TWO FREAKIN WEEK’s off work. I was in Norway with mom, pestering ad pestering and pestering her to get her on the phone with the insurance company because she refused to put anyone on paperwork before…. If I hadn’t been there with a mobile phone (which mom refuses to learn how to use) Patricia would have been dead in the water.
.
So.. oy!!
.
This is a Mom who prioritized HER worrying. If anything worried her, that was a reason to forbid anything. (Not uncommon I’ll admit.) But she absolutely doesn’t think our worrying matters. And absolutely doesn’t even notice that things *actually went wrong* and we fished her out of it all…
.
Sigh….
.
She’ll probably be fine. But oy!!!
People are crediting the extreme shutdown measure for the fact that we seem to be turning the corner with respect to the Wuhan virus. I have complained that the connection can not be made without a priori predictions. Well, now we have some. Minnesota and Wisconsin have done the usual crackdown, while the neighboring states of Iowa, South Dakota and North Dakota have been on the other extreme, with very few restrictions.
First column below is the state, then the population in millions, the IHME model prediction through Aug. 4 (as of Apr. 10), predicted deaths per hundred thousand population, actual deaths through Apr. 12, an the ratio of predicted to actual. For reference, the U.S. is predicted to have 19 deaths/100K, 2.8 times the present total.
state pop model /100K actual ratio
MN 5.6 442 7.9 70 6.3
WI 5.8 357 6.2 144 2.5
IA 3.2 743 23 41 18
ND 0.8 369 46 8 46
SD 0.9 356 40 6 59
That is quite a stark difference, apparently due to the fact that the model assumes that current policies will stay in place through the end of May.
It will be interesting to compare to what actually happens.
——–
I was put on to above by the following article, but went and checked the numbers myself.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/04/coronavirus-in-five-states.php
Lucia,
Aww. That’s sort of sweet. I get it though that it’s probably a tough and thankless job, being an angel. 🙂
mark,
Well… yeah. It would be nice if we could get her to follow ANY advice!!! It would be nice to get her off the flood plane….
Mike M,
The modeler’s relationship with the public is much like the border collie’s relationship with sheep….. scare the bajesus out of them to get them to do what you want.
,
No, the death rates by August are not going to be as high as the models predict at present (never mind their absolutely outlandish predictions from just two weeks ago!). It will be interesting to see if anyone in the MSM later says: “But you said there would be XXXXX deaths in my state, and there were nothing like that!”
Since your mom is 88, the chance of another flood you and your sisters have to take care of during her remaining years is probably small.
SteveF,
Perhaps…. But I’m not entirely sure of that. She’s had seepage into the basement since the flood. Just not a flood. We’d really like her to move!
.
It’s not going to happen voluntarily.
Looks like we might end up eating a lot of beans…
“One of the largest pork processing facilities in the US is closing until further notice”
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/12/business/meat-plant-closures-smithfield/index.html
lucia (Comment #182693)
April 12th, 2020 at 4:47 pm
Lucia, your mother sounds like my father. It was all very frustrating at the time but now the siblings joke about it. He was always the master of his domain but towards the end I had the reverse the son to father relationship. I would tell him what he should be doing and I told him like he used to tell me except I would explain in more detail why than he figured he had to do for me. He resisted but he also starting asking for advice on matters and attempt to disguise the asking part in order for him I suppose to still feel independent. As I get older I certainly better understand the independent part.
Good luck with your mom. As long as you continue to communicate some of your advice is bound to get eventually through. For some people it is more difficult for them to tell people they appreciate their efforts and concerns but that does not mean they do not appreciate or unfortunately that they will follow their advice.
Honestly, I’m not telling her to not have dinner with her friends. *Probably* her friend doesn’t get out much, and it’s fine.
.
I do wish we had succeeded in persuading her to leave the 4 bedroom two story house. She should have done and downsized into a single story location that was not on the flood plain when she and Dad divorced. That would have made sense, and in hindsight gotten her the best price! Now she has mobility issues blah… blah… She still won’t move.
.
I could go on, but really there isn’t much point. The main point: she’s an older adult. She is still competent enough to havea right to make her decisions. It would be nice if she would be more realistic about living on a flood plain or not exposing herself to Covid-19. Ain’t gonna happen.
.
Eventually, most children go through this.
lucia (Comment #182707)
April 13th, 2020 at 7:39 am
Looks like we might end up eating a lot of beans…
“One of the largest pork processing facilities in the US is closing until further noticeâ€
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/12/business/meat-plant-closures-smithfield/index.html
_________
That’s both surprising and frightening. Having worked in food processing (cannery, bakery, frozen foods), I know social distancing on the job is very difficult if not impossible for many workers due to the nature of their jobs, but this is true for manufacturing in general. Nevertheless , I can’t recall reports of any other factory shutting down because so much of it’s workforce was infected with Covid-19. So why such a large proportion of this particular manufacturing facility’s workforce became infected with Covid-19 is puzzling . A few sick workers could be expected, but enough to shut down the plant is shocking. I hope it’s just an anomaly.
Smithfield’s shut down was caused by Covid-19 , not by the government imposing restrictions to control the spread of this virus. It is a reminder that even without those restrictions our economy would have been damaged by worker sickness (reduced output) and consumer fear (reduced demand). How much economic damage would have occurred anyway (without the restrictions) will be difficult to estimate with much certainty. Perhaps Sweden’s experience with their light restriction policy will give some idea, presuming the country sticks with that policy.
lucia (Comment #182712)
Eventually, most children go through this.
_________
When I couldn’t persuade my aging parents with logic, I resorted to appealing to their fear of displeasing or harming me. I would just say your not doing what I’m asking is making me very unhappy. I am so worried I have trouble sleeping and I think I’m getting an ulcer, etc. You have to be careful to not overdo it or they will see what you are up to. If I had said do what I ask or I will never speak to you again, they would have replied “we will miss you.”
My exaggerations did not always persuade my aging parents, but sometimes worked where logic failed.
OK, this isn’t exaggeration, it’s outright lying. And my wife and I have also resorted to stealing car keys to protect the elderly. We lie and steal to help.
OK_Max
Well… that doesn’t work with my mom. 🙂
.
lucia (Comment #182776)
April 13th, 2020 at 4:39 pm
OK_Max
When I couldn’t persuade my aging parents with logic, I resorted to appealing to their fear of displeasing or harming me.
Well… that doesn’t work with my mom. 🙂
______
I can see why you are resigned to just trying to tolerate her. There may be some value to exercising and developing tolerance but I can’t think of any right now.
OK_Max,
I do tolerate. It still often go “Arghhh!!!!” when Mom is being Mom again.
I can understand. I sometimes felt the same way when trying to advise my mother(e.g. the frustration of trying to convince her keeping a huge sum of money in here checking account was wasteful).
OK_Max,
Keeping huge sums of money in a checking account is really piddling compared to insisting on a little old lady living on a flood plain and continuuing to do so after she was flooded AND had to rely on her kids to organize everything to get the house back in order.
.
This year, your Mom can probably show you her large cash position put ahead compared to having invested the money in the market.
I wanted my mom to put some of her cash in a money market and CD’s so it would earn interest. Because of her advanced age, I would not have advised her to invest in the stock market. Well, actually 5% to 10% of her cash in a broad-based stock mutual fund would have been OK, but I knew she would have thought that a crazy idea, so I never brought it up.
Yes, the present is a good time to be in cash. If deflation comes, holding cash should be even better.
OK_Max,
With current interest rates, you usually can only get a decent rate on a CD if it’s large, > $100,000, and multi-year. I haven’t bothered to move checking account money into a money market account because the difference in interest rate is inconsequential.
DeWitt Payne (Comment #182917)
OK_Max,
**With current interest rates, you usually can only get a decent rate on a CD if it’s large, > $100,000, and multi-year. I haven’t bothered to move checking account money into a money market account because the difference in interest rate is inconsequential.**
_____
DeWitt, we may have different views on what’s consequential.Yes, short-term interest rates are low and have been for a long time. Still, I don’t regard the 1.9% my MM paid in 2019 as inconsequential. I think a MM is a good place for a cash reserve or to park money temporarily, despite the loss of value to inflation.
I keep little more in my checking account than I need for living expenses. It pays interests too, last year something like 0.0000001%.
If you are keeping tens of thousands in a checking account, like my mom was years ago, you might consider it worthwhile to transfer some to a MM. Because of the times, a Treasury MM might be best.