Today’s Wall Street Journal carried two more stories touching on mining accidents.
Sadly, a Chinese coal mine accident resulted in 11 missing coal miners. Rescue workers hope to find and rescue them. We all hope for a happier outcome than during the 2008 accident that left 23 Chinese miners dead.
On a happy note, it looks like the rescued Chilean miners had the foresight to devise a plan whereby they can profit from sales of the their version of the disaster narrative. It appears while still awaiting rescue, the miners decided to keep details private until after they could collectively negotiate exclusive rights for their story. I wish them luck in their negotiations, and hope their take in story and movie rights permits each and every one sufficient funds to leave the mining industry.
Re: Chinese Mining
If a mining accident happens in a Communist country, the auto-conclusion is that Communism is to blame for the accident. Workers are expendable drones of the state, so this is an unfortunate but tolerable inevitability… if you like Communism.
Jus’ sayin’.
Andrew
Andrew_KY,
Well…I wouldn’t conclude that.
lucia (Comment#54831)
October 18th, 2010 at 1:20 pm
Andrew_KY,
Well…I wouldn’t conclude that.
Lucia,
Why wouldn’t you? My understanding is that Communism provides all the “necessary” safety regulation for it’s people, and it never doesn’t not work. 😉
Andrew
The estimates of total premature death for workers at the Potosi silver mine in Bolivia, not far from the Chilean mine, range beyond 8,000,000. That is not a typo, that is eight million. Sadly, none of them got to sell their stories.
braddles– That is very sad.
braddles,
8,000,000 people killed? Not 8,000,000 person-years lost?
I can find claims of “estimates of hundreds of thousands of deaths”, but no documented evidence or studies. Do you have any references to this figure of 8,000,000 people killed? It honestly sounds far-fetched.
braddles:
The total population of Bolivia is around 8,000,000.
This is an extremely silly claim.
Carrick–
Come come now. According to google, the population of Bolivia is 9,694,113. You don’t believe 85% of the population of Bolivia might have died “prematurely” after working as miners in the Potosi silver mine? It’s not as if Braddles is suggesting something clearly ridiculous like 101% died prematurely as a result of working in that mine. 🙂
Potosi has had a working silver mine since 1546. The 8 million figure may be right or wrong, but the present-day population has nothing at all to do, one way or another, with the number of people who have passed through the mine in the last five hundred years.
I suggest you think things through a little more before you launch into dismissive-chuckle mode.
The Potosi mines have been operating for over 450 years, so the current population level of Bolivia is pretty irrelevant.
Robert–
How many people do you think worked in the mine in 1510?
Let’s see…
If the average mine worker died after 10 year’s exposure (silicosis is one of the described causes of death, so 10 years would be pretty quick), and if the mine has been in operation for 464 years, then that would be about 46.4 groups of complete fatality over the lifetime of the mine. So assuming an average of death after 10 years work, and assuming the figure of 8,000,000 is correct, there would have to be 8,000,000/46.4 = 172,414 people on average working in the mine since 1546. Two Rose Bowls worth of people… working in the mine… every day.
Either a damned big mine… or maybe it wasn’t really 8,000,000 people that died. Sure wish braddles would come back with a reference on that figure. By the way, the Wikipedia entry says the native South American workers “died by the thousands”.
SteveF–
The conquistators may have enslaved people and sent them to quick near certain deaths. However, in that case, the number of people who died in 1546 would be rather irrelevant to my hope that Chilean miners might be able to profit from having been trapped in 2010.
So, the question would be: Why the heck bring up that number?
the answer is simple… some ecoloons get commercial and some get fire-hydro
The estimates of total premature death for workers at the Potosi silver mine in Bolivia, not far from the Chilean mine, range beyond 8,000,000. That is not a typo, that is eight million.
No , it is probably not a typo but it is ridiculous . Why not 80 millions while we’re at it ?
The whole population of Bolivia + Chile + Peru in 1900 was less than 8 millions .
If one goes a bit farther , beginning 19th century it is less than 3 millions people for all 3 countries .
Bolivia was the least populated of the 3 and before the 18th century its population was tiny .
Apparently the Potosi mine was the most efficient genocidal tool – much stronger than the Conquistadores , bubonic plague and homicidal man eater tribes all together .
And somehow it escaped notice of everybody during 5 centuries while decimating the whole South American population …
Quick reality check.
8,000,00 premature deaths over approximately 500 years is an average of 16,000 deaths per year…every year…for 500 years.
I think somebody would have noticed something like that by now.
Phil R:
Kind of my point. 😉
I didn’t really want to get into the math, but the numbers don’t work out.
I’ve seen claims for the “hundreds of thousands”. That is even probably a high-ball estimate. (One of the rules of liberals is you don’t get to question “heart-wrenching” numbers, so you’re supposed to take any absurd number they throw out on faith.)
China also has a reputation for exporting their safety standards and attitudes to their new economic colonies.
See here http://www.zambian-economist.com/2008/05/chinas-impact-in-zambia-bbc-report.html
and more recently, when the natives grew restless http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-11568485
Potosi is a mostly unknown brand of cigarettes. So the 8 million deaths is consistent with the expert estimates of deaths due to second hand smoke. Somebody must have been smoking in that mine.
/sarc
Oh dear … yet again we have total ignorance about Chinese coal mining practices and safety standards masquerading as “knowledge”
[Aside: although I am NOT Chinese, I am a practising geologist with many active concurrent projects on-site in operating Chinese mines]
First: yes, the Chinese mining industry has had many large-scale disasters and unhappily other disasters are still likely to occur. Statistically speaking, the sheer size of the Chinese industry (>40,000 operating mines of varying sizes) presents this as a likelihood, but the % of disasters is not so much higher compared with US and other western countries as one might expect
Second: the industry history (>2000 years old) has resulted in many “small” mines being run without due and proper regard to geology or engineering. The Chinese Government is very actively involved in merging these with their larger mines to improve safety to a world-acceptable level. The sheer number of these small mines makes progress slow (but it is constantly happening); this process is also hampered by provincial corruption, wherein, as an example, the local Mayor’s brother or uncle may own such a mine, so resistance is real but subtle
Third: the corruption noted in point Second above is being dealt with by a very Chinese method. Each mine has three (3) Govt-appointed statutory positions – Mine Manager, Chief Engineer, Safety Officer. Irrespective of who may own the mine, these positions are filled by Beijing decisions on personnel. In the event of a disaster, these three are prosecuted for a range of serious offences and generally found guilty. Their sentences ? A very long time in “mine jail”, which means labouring in a “small mine” to improve the safety aspects; no-one apart from family cares if they die in the attempt. As totalitarian as this is, the poetic justice aspects are obvious, so even if these people had no input into the disaster (and this is true many times, worldwide), the incentive for others following them to try very hard indeed is clear
Fourth: the provincial control centres for a local cluster of mines (such centres are organised and funded from Beijing) contain a safety system element that I have never observed anywhere in the West, or Russia, or elsewhere in Asia. Each underground coal mine has methane sensors in the roadways: when methane levels rise from seam out-gassing to a pre-set level (way below ignition point), the sensors turn off the electrics throughout the mine (to prevent potential ignition points) until the ventilation system clears the gas – so far, standard practice world-wide. The Chinese innovation is to connect these sensors through fibre cable to a central control point in a provincial city and monitor the sensor output in real time. If the pre-set methane safety level is exceeded (ie. electrics are cut off) more than twice in one month, the mine is shut down until a full investigation is concluded and remedial action taken. This system is being progressively introduced across China. Not completed yet because of the scale of the industry, but constantly in progress. I know this because I have been present in a provincial control centre when such incidents occurred. Again, totalitarian perhaps, but hardly evidence of some uncaring monolithic systemic abuse
Fifth: the Chinese authorities are acutely aware of and sensitive to the world attention and criticism in the area of mine safety. All of my current projects involve improving mine geological and engineering practices to address this exact issue. Yes, a long way to go but determined progress is being made
Last: if there are replies to this post, I would courteously request that the whole post is read first and absorbed. Knee-jerk replies that ignore the detail are truly boring