Data Comparisons

The national bird…

27 Comments

Three of our most important founders, debating the national bird:

Officially, John Adams wins the argument: our official bird is a bald eagle. Clearly, Thomas Jefferson’s choice of a dove has never applied to the US. But, at least in November, the turkey is the national bird.

27 thoughts on “The national bird…”

  1. Hehe, gotta love that Jefferson. Still, aesthetically, I prefer Adam’s choice and I’m glad he won that one.

    Franklin I think had a rare miss here.

  2. Oddly enough, several years ago, my husband was in a Naperville production of this play. He was cast as James Wilson, who, due to some reticence ended up being the deciding vote.

    Scroll to 2:47. We dubbed his part “the most important unimportant part”.

  5. And there we have it! Anecdotal evidence of advanced global warming in 1776. When since that time has it been “hot enough to hatch a stone” on July 4!!! And who could dispute the word of our founders straight from their own mouths?

  6. Arn–

    I don’t know about taking their word for the heat. Look at all those layers of clothes, not to mention the wigs. Plus, many of them were first or second generations immigrants from the UK, and we all know they complain about the heat when the temperature is above 80F.

    For all we know it was no more than 85F in Philly back in 1776.

    On the other hand, if stones actually hatched, that would have been something to see.

  7. Weather on that time and spatial scale fluctuates so wildly it might well have been unusually hot, but I’d bet that more generally (in a broad geographic and time context) that time period was actually pretty cool.

    That reminds me. Jefferson, in addition to being a great founder and President, was the first President to talk of climate change:

    “A change in our climate however is taking place very sensibly. Both heats and colds are become much more moderate within the memory even of the middle-aged. Snows are less frequent and less deep.” —Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781

  8. And, I should add, He was a dedicated weather observer, so more than anecdote was his basis-he actually built up data.

  9. Lucia deduces: “Look at all those layers of clothes, not to mention the wigs.”

    I wouldn’t take this necesasry as a confirmation of cold weather. European fashion for centuries trumped local weather/climate in the colonies, be it the USA or e.g., Indonesian colonies of the Netherlands. Even in the hot and wet monsoon climate the Dutch wore stubbornly their woolen coats and wide trousers with white collars, much better suited for the LIA-frozen Europe.

    http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3591/3334773732_9b7b3cfb65.jpg?v=1236414097v

  10. EW–
    What I meant was, “in all those clothes, they would be sweating bullets even if the temperature was only 85F.” I didn’t mean they were wearing them because it was cold in Philly in July of 1776.

  11. Understood. I was somehow under the influence of the rather cold summer start here.
    But still, the adherence of Europeans to all the layers of clothing + wigs and hats even in the tropics was quite interesting…

  12. EW-I remember from my European History classes learning of how they resist changing to cotton because, well, that’s peasant cloth and we colonists are better than that, see? However in the tropics I think they would have to have figured it out or perished. Shame there are no records of heat stroke deaths of bumbling Europeans far from home…

    Maybe it really WAS colder back then-although tropical temperatures tend not to change much-the big difference during the Little Ice Age in the low latitudes was probably in precipitation (especially if, as some hypothesis, the ITCZ shifted). But, well, hard to say without thermometers.

  13. Andrew_FL– Linen is a very cool fabric. So, you could still be cool without cotton. Of course, both do wrinkle terribly.

  14. I would think that Europeans would tend to prefer wool, which is not a cool fabric. But maybe they used linen? The very wealthy may have changed to silk, but…its kinda girly.

  15. Andrew_FL– I think wool and linen were both traditional fabrics in Europe. Linen was particularly popular for undergarments and sheets. The sheep and the flax were local products. Silk doesn’t have to be girly, but its use was limited because silk was imported from the far east after the middle ages.

  16. Maybe the problem with silk is that I have deep seated psychological associations of it as a fabric with scantily clad women. I suppose that doesn’t make it girly but its hard to get your brain moving again, as a guy, when that is all you can subconsciously conjure up.

    What? I can’t help it.

  17. Since the subject of fabrics has come up, I happened to watch a History Channel program over the weekend that talked about the importance of “homespun” in colonial days, and the importance of hemp. A number of the founders grew it and advocated its importance. They mentioned that Ben Franklin, though a social butterfly while in Europe, enjoyed wearing his homespun hemp. They didn’t discuss the more modern usage of the hemp plant.

  18. Andrew_FL,

    I think it’s socially acceptable to wear a halfway unbuttoned silky shirt IF it is part of a pirate outfit. We’d love you to submit those pics, too. 😉

    Andrew

  19. Other than Duane, you guys are clearly not fiber guys. Silk can be woven into many sorts of fabrics. Some of the brocades worn by the founding fathers may have been silk. Brocade isn’t currently fashionalbe, but it’s not necessarily feminine (and definitely not what anyone wants in lingerie.)

    Some socks may have been knit from silk. Tussah silk is often woven into a fabric that doesn’t look too “frou-frou”. Doupioni weave is also not too “frou-frou”.

    Charmeuse, peu de soi and satin are the fabrics Andrew thinks of as “silk”. They can be made from silk, and often are used for lingerie, women’s blouse, and, in some eras, sexy dresses. But, that’s not the whole silk story.

  20. Ah, the discussion remained at the sartorial theme, I see… 😉
    Of course, brocade (silken?) was often used for men’s clothing in noble or at least rich classes. But, turning back to the climate theme – it is also not very suitable for wearing in warm temperatures. I remember having a brocade ball dress in the tube style years ago (yes, it seems no more fashionable in the times of lycra) and it was like dancing in space suit.

  21. Hehe, caught me, I know very little about fabric! Thinks for the informative remarks. 🙂

  22. Whoo hoo, another woman! (Or a cross dressing guy.)

    Brocade is definitely not suitable for summer. Silk is actually quite insulating. Many midwesterners have silk long underwear. It’s thin but very warm. Lycra is more comfortable.

    Believe it or not, I have a taffetta evening gown with lycra! My husband says I look like Morticia Adams. (Now he needs an outfit that makes him look like Gomez.)

  24. Yes, another woman, but being a humble mycologist, I can’t add much to scientific debates. But even talking clothes is an education here! Long winter silk underwear at the Mid West…what an unusual concept for a Central European. Unfortunately, tafetta in Morticia’s style, lycra or not, is definitely not an option for me anymore. Too many years and also pounds for that…

  25. Alan D. McIntire (Comment#15735)-Indeed, if you see some of my posts above, Jefferson was not merely a weather nut, but one of the earliest budding climate observers!

  26. EW:

    Since you are a mycologist, you might enjoy reading one of the recent posts at Lubos Motl’s blog. He had some success in finding mushrooms, and even presented a recipe of sorts as I recall. He also talked about how there are more mushroom hunters in Europe, mostly knowledgeable amateurs according to him.

    To bring it more on topic for this blog, I could mention that I didn’t find any Morels this spring, and even common toadstools were rare. Just too cold at the wrong time I guess.

Comments are closed.