Category Archives: Betting

Update on Connolley v. Dekker NH Ice Bet

We are now in the interval between various factions reporting about the year end surface temperatures and people debating the eventually demise of NH Sea Ice. On the latter topic: Some people wanted to revisit the Connelly/Dekker ice bet, which I had discussed way back in 2011. I hunted down my “super-mega-curve fitting” script, and re-ran it. The discussion of all the fits can be found in Connelly Dekker Bet….

Those whose memories go back that far will recall that back in 2011, recall Connelly describe a bet with Dekker that went as follows

If both NSIDC and IARC-JAXA September 2016 monthly average sea ice extent report are above 4.80 million km^2, RD pays WMC US$ 10,000. If both are below 3.10 million km^2, WMC pays RD US$ 10,000. In all other cases the bet is null and void

I wrote a script that evaluates the NSIDC sea ice extent data, then does super-mega curvefitting (no physics!) to prognosticate the probability that either Connolley or Dekker will need to fork over (or win) any money.

I believe at the time Jeff Id reported the super-mega curve-fitting makes his head explode. Note: Jeff prefers physics to fitting data to mis-assorted algebraic functions. I do to.

However, here we are only trying to estimate how likely either gentleman is to win under the assumption that we can prognosticate using curve fitting. The hitch is: we have no idea what sort of curve fit we should use. Should we assume ice extent will follow a ‘straight line fit’? A quadratic? A cubic? None of these are physical as all can create projections permitting NH ice extent can to fall below zero or exceed the entire area of the earth. I added a “Gompertz” which at least has the attractive feature that the sea ice extent cannot fall below zero. (I should also add the fact that we are extrapolating only a few years forward partially mediates the nuttiness involved in these curve fits.)

Afterwards considering the possibility that any of these (utterly unphysical) curve fits might describe the data, I combine the uncertainty intervals in a way that expands the intervals relative to what they would be if we believed we knew what sort of algebraic model described the evolution of ice extent over time.

It’s worth noting: these are likely still not big enough. But they may be large enough to give us an idea of whether the bet is likely to turn out Dekker Win/Connelley Win /Draw. Many will recall that back in 2011, the sooper-dooper- head exploding model said
Under my “weighted” model (black below), the probability Rob would owe WC $10,000 was 8.5% while the probability WC would owe Rob was 36.4%. The most likely outcome was a draw with no-one paying anyone anything.

Since that time, the ice extent has bounced back a bit. Incorporating the new data into the curve fit, it looks like Rob had better set aside a fund to pay WC. The weighted model suggest Rob has a 30.7% chance of having to pay WC. Meanwhile WC has a 4% chance of having to pay Rob. So far, WC’s confidence in models appears to be holding out well– but we can’t be sure. In any case, “no one wins” is still the most likely outcome no matter which curve fit we try to use to “explain” the data.

The various fits are shown below. The probabilities cited are from the upper black line.

DekkerBet

Those of you getting excited by the ‘prediction’ that the ice will begin recovering over time: I saw that and thought, Really? It turns out that projected uptick is due to the projection based on the fit to the 4th order polynomial which wiggles around and then turns up. We have very few points to fit and it turns out the AIC criterion likes that fit — or at least likes it enough to not discount the possibility that it describes the data.

That said: fourth order fit is unphysical: I wouldn’t advise anyone betting on that. Of course nearly all the fits are unphysical, so obviously, one isn’t going to eliminate the fourth relative to the quadratic fit on the basis that it is ‘unphysical’. What the analysis should highlight is the danger of using unphysical fits. You’ll notice that the quadratic fit– which AIC likes ‘better’ than fourth order predicts a decline in NH Ice. Meanwhile the fourth order fit cannot be be ruled out. This means that one should recognize that these projections are highly uncertain; we do not have enough data to decide whether a model that predicts imminent spiral-of-death is loss is much better or worse than one that predicts recovery.

The winner of the Sea Ice Bet Minimum is…

It’s October, so the September 7 day minimum has certainly been reached. DeWitt, who kindly computed and updated graphs new the minimum was reached long ago. I’ve now sorted and determined the winners. DavidJay, BobD, LouisJenks and were nearly spot on with the first two entering bets within 0.001 million square kilometers of the actual JAXA observed value 0f 4.889 million square kilometers.

As many have observed, this is quite a nice recovery relative to the worryingly low ice extent of 2012 as can be seen below.

(DeWitt: Thanks for the chart!)

Those who recall the Connolley Dekker bet might be curious about the odds of either gentleman winning based on data now available. I’m curious too, so I’ll need to hunt down the script, update and rerun. (Recall: the method of estimating probabilities was based on extrapolation not physics, and was guaranteed to make Jeff Id’s head explode. But it’s a method, and we could see whose ahead.)

Meanwhile here is how everyone’s bets ranked up.

Winnings in Quatloos for NH SeaIce Extent Min 2014 Predictions.
Rank Name Prediction (millions of sq km) Bet Won
Gross Net
Observed 4.899 (millions of sq km)
1 DavidJay 4.9 5 81.558 76.558
2 BobD 4.9 3 39.148 36.148
3 LouisJenks 4.89 5 52.197 47.197
4 Carrick 4.94 5 41.758 36.758
5 HaroldW 4.949 3 20.044 17.044
6 eddieo 4.95 5 26.725 21.725
7 BillKelly 4.827 1 4.276 3.276
8 DonB 4.825 5 9.28 4.28
9 TroubleWithTribbles 4.809 3 0 -3
10 Gary 4.99 3 0 -3
11 Simon 4.8 5 0 -5
12 RogerL. 5.015 3 0 -3
13 JSW 4.778 4 0 -4
14 HankMcCard 4.751 3.79 0 -3.785
15 RickA 4.75 5 0 -5
16 YFNWG 4.75 5 0 -5
17 GeorgeTobin 4.75 5 0 -5
18 DeWittPayne 5.05 5 0 -5
19 march 5.05 5 0 -5
20 BKC 4.7 4.7 0 -4.7
21 PavelPanenka 5.1 3 0 -3
22 Edim 5.1 3 0 -3
23 HeberRizzo 5.1 5 0 -5
24 MikeP 5.1 5 0 -5
25 Kevin 5.11 5 0 -5
26 EarleWilliams 5.11 5 0 -5
27 Tamara 5.122 5 0 -5
28 GoCanucks 5.125 5 0 -5
29 SteveF 4.67 5 0 -5
30 timosoren 5.13 5 0 -5
31 BetaBlocker 4.65 1 0 -1
32 MDR 5.15 5 0 -5
33 igsy 4.62 2 0 -2
34 bitchilly 5.2 4 0 -4
35 UnfrozenCavemanMD 5.213 5 0 -5
36 hannuko 5.22 4 0 -4
37 Paul 5.223 5 0 -5
38 AdamGallon 5.24 5 0 -5
39 Rick 5.24 5 0 -5
40 Ray 5.357 5 0 -5
41 HenryMackay 4.43 2 0 -2
42 bobdroege 4.42 5 0 -5
43 FernandoLeanme 5.395 3 0 -3
44 RobertLeyland 4.4 4 0 -4
45 EddyTurbulence 5.4 5 0 -5
46 Jarmo 5.43 5 0 -5
47 KreKristiansen 5.44 4 0 -4
48 JohnFPittman 4.33 5 0 -5
49 MikeZ 5.48 1 0 -1
50 Anteros 4.317 5 0 -5
51 Freezedried 4.312 5 0 -5
52 AMac 4.31 3 0 -3
53 EdForbes 4.255 5 0 -5
54 Skeptikal 4.23 2 0 -2
55 colinaldridge 4.21 5 0 -5
56 LesJohnson 5.605 5 0 -5
57 levi 5.61 5 0 -5
58 BobKoss 5.611 5 0 -5
59 Mano 4 1.5 0 -1.5
60 ScottBasinger 5.8 5 0 -5
61 Motorbug 5.872 5 0 -5
62 JohnNorris 3.907 5 0 -5
63 angech 5.9 4 0 -4
64 Bill 3.84 5 0 -5
65 DMA 6 2 0 -2
66 RobertInAz 6.13 3 0 -3

The net winnings for each member of the ensemble will be added to their accounts.

June UAH Bet Winners!

It a tardy announcement, but things are a bit frazzled around here. The winners of the June bets are Simon, MikeN and Motorbug all of whom entered 0.3 as their bet. Precedence is decided by who entered their bet first. This is a very tough break for Zer0th and ScottBasinger who also entered 0.3 making this an unprecedented 5 way tie! Others bets were also heavily clustered around the correct value of 0.303C. Wow!

Winnings in Quatloos for UAH TTL June, 2014 Predictions.
Rank Name Prediction (C) Bet Won
Gross Net
Observed 0.303 (C)
1 Simon 0.3 5 85.143 80.143
2 MikeN 0.3 4 54.492 50.492
3 Motorbug 0.3 5 54.492 49.492
4 Zer0th 0.3 5 43.593 38.593
5 ScottBasinger 0.3 5 18.906 13.906
6 AnterostheLucky 0.307 5 0 -5
7 PhilR 0.298 5 0 -5
8 UnfrozenCavemanMD 0.309 5 0 -5
9 JohnFPittman 0.31 5 0 -5
10 PavelPanenka 0.292 3 0 -3
11 LukeWarmist 0.318 3 0 -3
12 Angech 0.319 4 0 -4
13 LaurieChilds 0.286 5 0 -5
14 Clyde 0.321 5 0 -5
15 GeorgeTobin 0.285 5 0 -5
16 Howard 0.322 3 0 -3
17 Henry 0.323 2 0 -2
18 Lance 0.326 5 0 -5
19 BobKoss 0.328 5 0 -5
20 RobertLeyland 0.276 4 0 -4
21 EdForbes 0.33 5 0 -5
22 Tamara 0.333 5 0 -5
23 DocMartyn 0.333 5 0 -5
24 SteveT 0.338 4.13 0 -4.125
25 edmcdermed 0.339 5 0 -5
26 Freezedried 0.339 5 0 -5
27 bobdroege 0.342 1 0 -1
28 LesJohnson 0.344 5 0 -5
29 Skeptikal 0.262 3 0 -3
30 MpG 0.26 5 0 -5
31 AJAJAJ 0.26 1 0 -1
32 BobW 0.257 2 0 -2
33 ivp0 0.355 5 0 -5
34 MikeP 0.251 5 0 -5
35 Ray 0.25 5 0 -5
36 jeffid 0.25 5 0 -5
37 YFNWG 0.25 5 0 -5
38 AMac 0.361 3 0 -3
39 AndrewKennett 0.245 5 0 -5
40 kevinfinnegan 0.241 5 0 -5
41 joeshill 0.234 5 0 -5
42 Dudley 0.228 5 0 -5
43 KreKristiansen 0.22 4 0 -4
44 LanceWallace 0.22 5 0 -5
45 JohnNorris 0.388 5 0 -5
46 DCA 0.217 3 0 -3
47 denny 0.211 5 0 -5
48 Earle 0.395 5 0 -5
49 jackmosevich 0.399 5 0 -5
50 LouisJenks 0.4 3 0 -3
51 BenG 0.401 5 0 -5
52 mct 0.204 5 0 -5
53 TroubleWithTribbles 0.203 3 0 -3
54 Bill 0.202 5 0 -5
55 RiHo08 0.179 4.5 0 -4.5
56 RickA 0.167 5 0 -5
57 march 0.123 5 0 -5
58 JSW 0.555 2 0 -2
59 TimoSoren -0.13 5 0 -5

The net winnings for each member of the ensemble will be added to their accounts.

On a personal note: It appears we may be having two funeral services for Popsie-Wopsie. One will be held Saturday, July 19 at 10:00 am at St. Peter’s Episcopal Church, 621 W. Belmont Avenue, Chicago. The other may take place at a Roman Catholic Church with time and place to be decided (but my guess is it may be Arlington Heights.)

Thank you all for the condolonces, they are much appreciated. If I am able, I will post a cd of photos of Dad throughout his life.

Roy’s May UAH: +0.329C

Roy Spencer announced this months UAH anomaly: 0.329C! Toasty warm! Win place and show went to Zer0th, jackmosevich and AndrewKennett. Interestingly everyone bet for lower temperatures than occurred. (Watch out, we are in an El Nino. Remember that for future bets!)

Here are the rest of the winnings:

Winnings in Quatloos for UAH TTL May, 2014 Predictions.
Rank Name Prediction (C) Bet Won
Gross Net
Observed 0.329 (C)
1 Zer0th 0.3 5 79.429 74.429
2 jackmosevich 0.25 2 25.417 23.417
3 AndrewKennett 0.245 5 50.835 45.835
4 PavelPanenka 0.235 3 24.401 21.401
5 PhilR 0.23 5 30.918 25.918
6 LesJohnson 0.225 5 0 -5
7 Howard 0.223 3 0 -3
8 Tamara 0.222 5 0 -5
9 ivp0 0.222 5 0 -5
10 Freezedried 0.221 5 0 -5
11 ScottBasinger 0.22 5 0 -5
12 LanceWallace 0.22 5 0 -5
13 MikeN 0.22 3 0 -3
14 TerryMN 0.219 5 0 -5
15 LouisJenks 0.217 2 0 -2
16 Clyde 0.214 3 0 -3
17 EarleWilliams 0.211 5 0 -5
18 Dudley 0.211 5 0 -5
19 denny 0.211 5 0 -5
20 RobertInAz 0.21 2 0 -2
21 JSW 0.21 1 0 -1
22 JohnF.Pittman 0.21 5 0 -5
23 RickA 0.203 5 0 -5
24 RobertLeyland 0.202 4 0 -4
25 Lance 0.202 5 0 -5
26 angech 0.2 2 0 -2
27 RoscoeShaw 0.2 1 0 -1
28 GeorgeTobin 0.2 5 0 -5
29 Anteros 0.197 5 0 -5
30 bobdroege 0.195 1 0 -1
31 MikeP 0.192 5 0 -5
32 mct 0.192 5 0 -5
33 EdForbes 0.19 5 0 -5
34 AMac 0.184 3 0 -3
35 MpG 0.175 5 0 -5
36 BILL 0.175 5 0 -5
37 Simon 0.175 5 0 -5
38 Sigmundb 0.175 1 0 -1
39 steveta 0.172 4.5 0 -4.5
40 RiHo08i 0.171 4.5 0 -4.5
41 Tom 0.17 5 0 -5
42 BobW 0.165 3 0 -3
43 Ray 0.16 5 0 -5
44 Motorbug 0.153 5 0 -5
45 JoeShill 0.14 5 0 -5
46 Skeptikal 0.132 3 0 -3
47 march 0.123 5 0 -5
48 DocMartyn 0.121 5 0 -5
49 pdm 0.115 5 0 -5
50 KreKristiansen 0.07 4 0 -4
51 JohnNorris 0.023 5 0 -5
52 AJAJAJ -0.051 1 0 -1

The net winnings for each member of the ensemble will be added to their accounts.

I’ll post the June betting form tomorrow!

Bet on May UAH!

This month we’ll give those who like to watch the auguries a good chance to beat everyone else: Betting is opened super late. But it’s opened now. Those who wish to bet, here’s the form!

[sockulator(../musings/wp-content/uploads/2011/UAHBets5.php?Metric=UAH TTL?Units=C?cutOffMonth=6?cutOffDay=1?cutOffYear=2014?DateMetric=May, 2014?)sockulator]
Deadline 5/31/2014.

Really Tardy April UAH results… 0.190C

Very tardy announcement! Roy did announce the April UAH temperature anomaly some time ago: 0.190C. The winners for April’s UAH bet are MpG, Ben and Anteros who took win, place and show. Remember: ties go to whoever entered their bet first. Other entries are shown below. I assume Lisa Turner ‘committed typo’ when entering 18 and intended to enter 0.18. As it makes no difference to the outcome, I’ve let that stand.

Winnings in Quatloos for UAH TTL April, 2014 Predictions.
Rank Name Prediction (C) Bet Won
Gross Net
Observed 0.190 (C)
1 MpG 0.19 5 82.714 77.714
2 Ben 0.19 5 66.171 61.171
3 Anteros 0.192 5 52.937 47.937
4 JSW 0.192 1 8.47 7.47
5 LouisJenks 0.192 2 5.208 3.208
6 RickA 0.187 5 0 -5
7 Tamara 0.195 5 0 -5
8 Freezedried 0.184 5 0 -5
9 mct 0.197 5 0 -5
10 BobKoss 0.181 5 0 -5
11 Bill 0.181 5 0 -5
12 RokShox 0.18 1 0 -1
13 Lance 0.179 5 0 -5
14 LanceWallace 0.201 5 0 -5
15 TroubleWithTribbles 0.201 3 0 -3
16 SteveT 0.202 4.5 0 -4.5
17 Ray 0.177 5 0 -5
18 MDR 0.205 3 0 -3
19 EarleWilliams 0.175 5 0 -5
20 Simon 0.175 5 0 -5
21 denny 0.207 5 0 -5
22 lucia 0.172 3 0 -3
23 RiHo08i 0.171 4 0 -4
24 EdForbes 0.17 5 0 -5
25 RobertInAz 0.21 1 0 -1
26 Hal 0.17 5 0 -5
27 DanielG. 0.21 3 0 -3
28 LukeWarmist 0.167 3 0 -3
29 LesJohnson 0.215 5 0 -5
30 Dunna 0.218 5 0 -5
31 Howard 0.223 5 0 -5
32 Pieter 0.157 5 0 -5
33 BobW 0.156 3 0 -3
34 ChrisM 0.155 2 0 -2
35 Motorbug 0.23 5 0 -5
36 TImothySorenson 0.15 4 0 -4
37 PavelPanenka 0.231 3 0 -3
38 EdS 0.14 5 0 -5
39 Rick 0.24 5 0 -5
40 Clyde 0.243 5 0 -5
41 pdm 0.127 5 0 -5
42 HaroldW 0.256 4 0 -4
43 march 0.123 5 0 -5
44 DocMartyn 0.11 5 0 -5
45 Collin 0.088 5 0 -5
46 TimTheToolMan 0.32 5 0 -5
47 Genghis 0.031 5 0 -5
48 JohnNorris 0.023 5 0 -5
49 bobdroege 0.7 1 0 -1
50 edward 1.99 5 0 -5
51 LisaTurner 18 5 0 -5

The net winnings for each member of the ensemble will be added to their accounts.

For those wonder the main reason for slow blogging…. uhmm… pattern drafting and sewing.

Bet on April UAH.

It’s April. A Daffodil is blooming in my yard. I see no snow. I am hoping to see tulips, hyacinths and other pretty flowers soon. We are planning my birthday celebration.

More importantly, it’s time to bet on the UAH temperature.
[sockulator(../musings/wp-content/uploads/2011/UAHBets5.php?Metric=UAH TTL?Units=C?cutOffMonth=4?cutOffDay=16?cutOffYear=2014?DateMetric=April, 2014?)sockulator]
Deadline 4/15/2014.

Tips: El Nino seems to be anticipated– but it is not here yet. The strategy of ‘betting the current temperature” worked last month, but it usually does not. The problem with that strategy is you often get close to the right temperature, but are easily edged out because bets may cluster. If you do use this strategy, remember: ties go to the person who best first. So, bet early.

In contrast, bets are not clustered in the tails and you are less likely to experience losing out on quatloos when the tie goes to the earlier better. But you can easily be way off. You be the judge of your best strategy!

Good luck.